Krisenkommunikation: Lektionen aus einem viralen Skandal

0:00Hey, before we start, uh, we wanted you guys to react to this video. [Applause] [Music] >> Bad news doesn't get better with time. Hey, if you're a business owner or entrepreneur, this episode is for you because how you communicate during times of crisis is really important. And we've seen a lot of that in the news right now. and my partner Laya Hermos and I are going to talk to you about the tactics and the strategies that you can use not just to communicate crisis-based situations but also how you communicate in the normal world that empowers your organization and makes you a standout person in your industry. This is a behind-the-scenes episode of the operator podcast with me Shiran Tribatza and my partner Lea Heroszi look at these [Music] Oh, wow. He even said it.

1:01>> When I saw that clip, I just had this mix of emotions. >> Yeah. >> I was afraid for them, scared for me for some reason. What if this happened to us? I quickly was rifling through everything that I have done in the past. I'm like, oh my goodness, did was I ever in a situation like this? And I think what happens a lot of times when you see that is we instantly go to what would I have done in that situation. So the question for you is let's say something like that happened and it was one of our portfolio companies and we were advising their CEO. How what's the piece of advice that you give to that person?

1:36>> I think in those moments the only thing you can do is be honest. I think it's just like everyone tries like what's the PR angle? What's the how do we manage it? What's the reputation? It's like be honest. you just got caught. The worst thing you can do is compound the lies. I think that I remember hearing like the worst thing about a mistake is that you double down on it. Doubling down on lie. I think that's the worst thing you could do. So, my first thought would be like you've got to be completely honest and take full accountability and responsibility.

2:03>> Yeah. >> Um and I think that's the only way that you can ever make value on your side. It makes me think of uh when we started the company Allen and we made our first like release of new features and I got into the group with all of our beta users and they were basically like this is [ __ ] and I was like oh my gosh and then they're like I can't believe that I'm even paying a dollar for this like all this stuff and I was like immediately I was like oh my gosh there's how do I respond? And then I was like I'm just going to do what I've always done like tell the truth like I'm so sorry I [ __ ] up. my fault. I'm not even going to tell you all the excuses I like just my fault. I'm sorry.

2:39>> [ __ ] up. And like I won't even say I'm sorry too many times. I'm just going to change my behavior going forward. >> Right. >> So when I see that I think you just have to admit the truth. >> Yeah. The thing that I saw instantly was in this modern day of social media and things going viral and the news spreading so fast. >> Yeah. whoever it is has to get ahead of the story because I remember this quote I will never forget it is bad news doesn't get better with time

3:09>> especially in this modern world. >> Yeah. >> Right. So not only do you tell the truth you you have to be first to tell the truth and for a framework for telling the truth is I think it really comes down to core values. Right. So if we were to say something we would say hey that was not me that was not a sincere cander moment. Let me own that. >> Yeah. And that was not, you know, we stand for unimpeachable character. Let me own that.

3:33>> Yeah. >> If the positive way of living our lives is operationalizing our core values, then the way to take responsibility is to also just take responsibility for violating those core values in some way. But I think speed of acceptance of the truth is so important in today's world because if what if they'd waited four days before that would come out?

4:00>> Yeah, you have to respond immediately. >> Yeah, I do think of it like anytime I [ __ ] something up, anytime I make a mistake, anytime even like the company makes a mistake, I just say like own the narrative. like you want to be the first to the headlines because then you write the story versus letting other people make assumptions, catastrophize, fill in the blank with their own whatever. It's like then you own the story of what's happening.

4:23>> I will tell you this. Um maybe you can talk about this. I am so impressed with leaders who can apologize. It is the most It is very hard to get mad at somebody who is actually apologizing. Yeah. honestly truthfully who's taking when I say apologize I say apologize and take responsibility right it's there's something so deeply human about apologizing and taking responsibility and that may have been

4:49>> uh hey I looked at the numbers wrong internally and provided poor guidance to my team that may have been hey I did not you know I was I was assigned this project but I did not get it I I've missed my email whatever it may be when someone takes responsibility >> it's the fastest way to like wipe the the slate clean. And so there's something with this whole leaders who have built this self-esteem up.

5:15>> Yeah. >> And saying sorry or taking responsibility is not a macho thing. And I just I would just offer that it's you are deeply human and deeply loved and cared for when you actually just apologize, take responsibility because now you have a clean slate to go fix the thing. >> Yeah. I also think it allows like if you apologize, you say I [ __ ] up, then it allows other people to feel like I'm okay being human as well. I've always looked at like that. And it's funny, I give a framework uh to the EAS, for example, for apologizing because, you know, they do 50 tasks a day for you.

5:47Like they're going to mess something up. And so I say like you you say what you did, take responsibility for it. Um say you're sorry. Don't follow up with excuses or reasons. Follow up with what you'll do differently next time. >> So good. And it's future pace. It's like here's what I'll do differently in the future. I think that's always helped me a lot too because for example like if I'm like if me and Alex in in our marriage like we have an argument or something or it's like we just say I would prefer if you do X next time instead. We don't ever say like I can't believe you did I can't like we both we can tell like he goes he just like bites his tongue. I would prefer you do XY and Z next time.

6:21>> That's it cuz like at least it's a directive which keeps you focused in the future rather than feeling bad about yourself and such. Um, but I think at the same time, you know, I watch that clip and I'm like, man, like that feels bad because even if you say you're sorry and they're just gonna you're going to get shown for a long time for that one. >> Do do you think that if something if there is a moment of poor judgment like the Koflay incident or something else that happens?

6:46>> Yeah. >> Um, especially that's publicized that could be in the company, outside the company, etc. for anybody. If something negative happened, sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. It's a hey, you accept the responsibility and you then pay the price for it and you tell that you tell the world that you apologize and you then you work really hard with change behavior to go fix this. So now this guy Andy has to go and spend the time to reclaiming and reworking and rebuilding his reputation. There is no other choice, right?

7:17>> There's no delete button in the memory. There's only create new memories. Yeah. >> Yeah. So let me ask you this. That was a company leader doing that. It it applies to it inside of a company as well. What about in a market situation like let's say there is a it was COVID at gym launch >> which is a a market catastrophe where

7:41>> there's a market struggle. Yeah. >> And you are you are in that industry. >> Is it the same as is that the same crisis you think and does a leader have a similar responsibility? I think it actually might be I would say yes similar responsibility but I think the emotion around it is so different because when it's you you feel so entrenched in it that it's very hard to see what you do because you're like I feel terrible because they're all telling me I suck versus I think co you're thinking like wow this sucks rather than I suck. Um, so I think the moment it happened during COVID, the first thing that we did is we pulled we said we need to work around the clock so that tomorrow afternoon we pull a call with all of our clients and then we pull a call with anybody in the community that wants to join and then we change all of our marketing and it's like it's no longer marketing. It's like messaging to the community of like what's happening, what's our take in this, we feel confident, you know, here's the direction we need to take. Um, and so we just tried to I would say a couple things, which is like one, own the narrative. Um, like address what's going on, but also own the narrative of how you're going to respond. So I was super transparent about like here's what we're going to do as a company. Um, the second thing was addressing the obvious, which is I don't have control over everything.

8:52I cannot control if a tornado hits tomorrow or a hurricane or this or that. But what I am damn sure of is I'm going to work my [ __ ] ass off. And if anyone's going to try their hardest to make this work, it's us. We have the most incentive. We have the most resources. we have the most this and so I think instill confidence in people that you actually can solve the thing going forward um and then just see it through I think there's nothing but action after that you just have to live up to what you say I think it's similar with like a personal crisis because your reputation is the consistent behaviors you do over time right so until you change your behavior and do it for enough time your reputation is damaged and I think it's unfortunate but it is the truth is like until he goes out and is in a company leading a company not unfaithful for a period of time, his reputation remains as is and it will forever be changed because like when you think of Tiger Woods, you know what I mean?

9:39>> Yeah. >> So, it's interesting cuz like I I watch that and like I think to myself, I'm like I remember my first mentor said, "Layla, you're always going to be seen through a microscope and heard through a megaphone and that's why I quit drinking. >> So, good >> because like getting drunk, you know? I I have two sips of something and I'm uh but like I I remember hearing that and I was like, "Oh, it's not because I don't want people to be like, "Oh, she drinks." It's because what if I do something stupid while I'm drinking and I'm in public? Because like I asked myself, where am I vulnerable? And I was like, "Oh, well, if I get drunk and I do something stupid because I tend to act silly if I'm drinking and then somebody catches that on camera or they do and it's like that's my my weak point." Um, so I see that with him and I was like, "Wow, that was that concert in public.

10:22That's crazy." Like when you're married. >> Yeah, >> that's insane. I don't even barely kiss Alex in public. The crazy thing that happened one time was it see this is really seems really basic. >> Yeah. >> It's like five, six years ago and uh I never had a potty mouth but I would >> Oh no. >> I would curse. >> Yeah. >> Whenever I thought it naturally came out and in a business meeting once I cursed.

10:47It was probably I remember the day it was probably a wellpositioned curse. >> Yeah. >> And we lost like a big deal because of it. And so I made a commitment to myself that I it's hard to completely turn off that. And so but uh one I don't curse at home. And so instantly my wife and I don't curse at all. And so that changed everything. And the second is now I only curse in positive way. So I'm like awesome,

11:18>> right? >> You will never see me say [ __ ] Yeah. >> I would not say that. So I only my only time I curse is like it's a it's a positive it's an adjective. >> Wow. >> Okay. >> Sean's a better human than me. I feel like this is >> No, but but but I think what that did is so when I'm on So when I'm on stage, even when I'm on stage now, I self beep out my own curse. I'm like that amazing thing. And so I just self beep my own stuff out.

11:44>> So interesting. >> Which is so a small thing like that while something had to happen but it is changed behavior. >> Yeah. Right. It changes your reputation because you don't curse and it comes off a different way to people. >> There have been times where I've been invited to speak at events and in rooms where they're like, I don't have to worry about Shawn not cursing. >> And it's also it's easy cuz it's not I I don't think you can get Gary Vee not to curse. It's not a good thing or a bad thing, but he's built his reputation around that. >> Yeah.

12:10>> But talking about the industry, I I want to tell a crazy story and I think this will happen to more people. So last, this is like a year year and a half ago. uh when I was started real there was in the real estate industry had this huge litigation against it as an industry as a whole. It was like a commission dispute and and all that. >> Yeah. >> And u it all everything hit the lawsuit against the industry hit on a Friday >> and we were all kind of taken aback. We thought

12:37>> one half of the commissions are going to go away and everyone was in a in a tizzy. >> I had no idea what to do. So, I just put out a social post that says, >> um, I'm going to show you how to navigate this environment. Come to the Zoom on Monday. >> That's all I did, right? And I said open to everybody in the industry because we have to row this boat together. >> Yeah. >> There were tens of thousands of people on my Zoom and I had committed to doing that with had no plan. No plan whatsoever.

13:07>> And the thing that was resonating in my head was bad news doesn't get better with time. I just need to be the first response. So, anybody that responded after, they were in second place. They were like, well, Shan had already done that. Shiron showed up first. Shiron is our, you know, is leading the industry doing this charge. Every single person, it didn't matter. It was I was the first one to stake like put a stick in the ground that said, I'm going to help everybody in this industry. And whoever came after, even though if their content or ideas or everything was better, all they remember is who who showed up first.

13:35>> They associate you with the first solution. >> That's it. Well, you talk about brand being association, right? M >> they're like this thing happened this person came to support me% >> it got to the point where for the next multiple months that webinar that I did >> was played in other firms's conference rooms >> I remember this I was walking down the Ara you were telling me this I was like that's insane like competitors right >> correct >> so that's crazy

14:01>> can you imagine we don't have any competitors per se but can you imagine well we don't right but can you imagine other private equity firms playing our content in their conference rooms. >> I've actually seen it. But but yeah, it's because if you're a clear you clearly to said I'm the market leader >> or I'm I'm the leader of whatever the solution is going to be at the moment. No, it's really smart. >> Yeah. What do you think about um what do you think about industry based messaging in may be a crisis or maybe uh hey AI's taken over X industry like I'm sure that's happening to industries right now or it's there's X regulation that's happening or like in um when the tariffs hit and a lot of the e-commerce people got went to struggle. What do you think about messaging in a one company messaging to the industry as a whole? Do you think that's a positive thing? Do you think leaders should do that? How do you kind of how do you think about it?

14:55>> I think I mean I don't know what you think about I think about the market leader like whoever's leading that industry the market their number one they message the industry whereas I think other people message their competitors like number one never needs to talk about number two or three or four to prove their worth. They talk about the greater good and the greater good for their customers and the industry. Whereas like number two, three, four talk about each other for rocks at each other. they're playing that small game. When you're playing the big game, you're looking at the big picture.

15:24>> So, I almost look at like >> the even if you're not number one yet, you don't get there unless you start talking about that stuff. >> Do you think that if if there's a there's a leader of a company that is watching right now? Yeah. Yeah. And they are, you know, call it one of a thousand companies in their industry and they they see a trend where the industry is going or they see uh how how we they can serve their collective clients better.

15:51Do you think that their voice can be heard as a kind of industry reputation manager or do they are they're like well my my voice is too small. No one cares. So I actually have an interesting way I thought about it which is like if you treat your audience like clients I think eventually your audience becomes your client. >> So good. >> So if you treat the whole >> fire today really >> so good need some caffeine today but thanks >> so good. >> No I I I think I think about it that way because it's like how would I respond to this person if they were a client and that actually came to me like three years ago because I was going through my my DMs when I started making content and I was like oh is this person a client or not? Were they a client of my company or not? And then I realized I was like, I should just treat everybody like they're my clients. And so I kind of made that a mantra. I was like, treat my whole audience like they're my clients. So it's like I respond to as many as I can.

16:39They get back like I I hold boundaries where I would like all that. And that's helped me a lot. So I I have a hard time believing that if you don't treat people like they are your clients that they wouldn't want to be one day, you know. >> So good. I I I also think that the if someone says, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense." But I think the switch there is we respect our clients. We respect our clients for their decision to work with us. We respect our clients for what they do. We respect that we deliver some kind of service to them that they can be better. Yeah. And because of that respect, you handle you approach the conversation differently. I actually think it's no different than when you have a players in your organization.

17:14When you have a players in your organization, you respect them more. Therefore, you're not an ass to them. So when if anyone's being an ass to their team members, they just don't respect their teams. >> Yeah. like our teams. I don't want to offend anybody. I'm like, "Yo, our rock stars." And so there's this deep level of respect. They're saying like, "Hey, tell me how I can I told the team, tell me how I can make my content better. Like if I need to reshoot that three times, I trust your judgment. Tell me that." There's a deep level of respect.

17:43And when you respect somebody, you change the way you communicate with them. So, so even if someone is rude to you on the DMs and you have that's like a client just >> being rude and you you would handle that not with rudeness back. >> Yeah. Yeah, you would handle them with a lot more neutrality overall. >> Yeah. Like, oh, I could see you're saying there, but here's my perspective. Yeah. No, that's really interesting. >> It changes the frame completely. >> It does change the frame. Now, I think paired with the industry messaging, um, I'm curious what you think about what it takes to be an industry leader, like looking at what happened in that Coldplay incident, like where my mind goes is I'm kind of curious like what do you think the sacrifices are that you've had to make to be an industry leader and to continue to be? Like if you really think like what do you sacrifice every day, months over the years that you're like if I didn't have this responsibility, maybe I'd be doing those things. Have you ever thought about that?

18:34>> Yeah. The in a lot of ways I I see this as the biggest difference between those that are leaders in an industry and those that are not to me is just one thing. Mhm. >> Those that are not are consistently inconsistent and those that are are are consistently consistent. I just love I just love being around consistently consistent people. Even if you're a total jerk, I know that you're going to show up as a jerk over and over again.

19:03>> We know you're a jerk, right? You know, we know you're a jerk. So, don't be a jerk one day and be like, you know, awesome the next day. Like, being consistently consistent is really, really important because >> it allows people to have a sense of safety with you, right? And and when people are safe with you, they will open up to you. They will be more vulnerable with you. They will want to hire you. They'll want your advice. They'll listen to your stuff. >> And that's why consistent content is important. >> Yeah.

19:28>> Consistent messaging is important. Consistency it. Yeah. >> So it's not about So, okay, let's if this is like a hypothetical extreme. If Andrew Tate got caught at the concert with a girl when he had a girlfriend, would anybody say anything about >> No, he's consistently content. Yeah, >> he's consistent with the fact that he's he does that, right? And so it's more you're saying it's not necessarily about avoiding being flawed. It's about being consistent with it.

19:56>> Yeah. Because at some point you're messaging to the world who you are. >> Yeah. >> And this is an incident only because the messaging was in congruent with >> Yeah. >> who he who he portrayed himself to be. >> And you know, you talked about that Adam Grant quote which I thought was awesome, right? which is how you do in a lot of ways. How you do one thing is how you do everything. You can't be you can't have high integrity at home and not have high integrity at work. It's just you're you're working the same muscle.

20:23>> Yeah. >> No, that's a tough one, right? >> Uh yeah. >> The the other thing about um the other thing about being an industry leader is sometimes you do it >> at the direct cost of success of your company. you you do something for like I will tell you the reason why in a lot of ways we don't have competition like I don't know no one is saying hey I'll go work with acquisition.com or someone else there's no someone else right

20:53>> but I think that's because we give everything away like the scaling roadmap we just give everything away that alone could have been a 10 20 $30,000 online course or a workshop or whatever we just said here's everything that we've learned go get it >> yeah And could that have been seen as a uh reduction in revenue for us? You could you could fight that. But then we just said, "Hey, this is the goodwill that we're putting into the marketplace." I think goodwill of marketplace is really important.

21:21>> That's actually interesting. The more goodwill you deposit into the marketplace, the more you position yourself as an industry leader because you have all that goodwill to stand on. That's that's fascinating. >> Goodwill also opens doors, right? It's people are like, "Well, I see Leila stuff all the time." If you reached out to somebody on DM, there's a the the chances of you getting a response back are is so high is not because of any other reason than because you have been one consistently consistent and two you've given everything away. So there's so much goodwill deposited.

21:50>> I should message like one person because >> I don't message anybody. >> But my point is you you could, right? But I think that is that here's a behind the scenes thing that you don't know about. The key is that while Leila doesn't message others, it helps us in our in hiring a players. >> Yeah. >> Right. So when when somebody even though you don't make the ask, someone coming on board gets a chance to see all the goodwill and they have this immense love when they show up for the interview. So the frame is completely changed. They're like what would it take for me to be a part of this ecosystem? Like, and

22:32>> is that part's nice when people come in and they're like, "Oh, I saw on your stories that you said this or that or you know, I had someone I was interviewing for EA and they were like, I saw you didn't go to the dentist for six months and like I'd help with that." And I was like, "Smart." Um, so no, that does that does definitely help there. Um, it's interesting because like, you know, as I think of the industry leader piece too, I do think like being consistent. I think at the beginning though, I definitely thought and I'm thinking what other people are thinking too. They're like, "I can't have flaws.

22:59I can't make mistakes. I can't." How do you see like have you ever Can you think of like the most the biggest mistake you've ever made in leadership and how you came back from it? Like just something you did in front of your team cuz like I can think of maybe two times where I did something I was like, "Fuck, I feel really bad about that." Like it dug at me. Um and I felt like it was inconsistent with who I was and then like how did I come back from it? >> So uh this is why you get coaching which is good. I I will not forget this. There was a team meeting.

23:28>> It was just all exacts probably like eight, nine years ago. >> Yeah. >> And I remember what happened. It was like a little financial crisis. We found that somebody was embezzling from the company and which is bad. It would not end us, but it was irritating because we didn't have controls and I I'm normally like a pretty even killed guy. >> Yeah. >> And I lost it. >> Yeah.

23:51>> I didn't yell, but I was belligerent. I was not cool in the meeting. I They saw me, you know, semi unhinged. They saw me >> unhinged. >> Well, no, you know, they like I'm like this all the time. They saw they saw me off base. Yeah. >> They saw it really bothered me. They saw how someone >> poked my integrity buttons and

24:14>> I got off the call I got off the call more upset about how I had handled myself about the situation. >> Yeah. And uh I called my coach about it and she said, "So what?" You know, she she asked me this crazy crazy question. Uh what are you telling yourself about yourself? >> It's a really weird question if you ask about anything. Anytime you're down, anytime you're happy, anytime you're sad,

24:40>> narrative, >> uh even when you're happy. So let's say let's say we did something and we had a big win. >> Yeah. >> You feel good. >> Yeah. >> So like what are you telling yourself about yourself? I'm the man. I'm awesome. I created this. All that. And then the opposite is true too, right? >> So that was a So I said, I don't know how to answer that question. She goes, if you can't answer that question, you will not be able to reset yourself out of this.

25:02>> And the thing that I I realized was that I needed to I needed the um I I need my team to see me back on an even kill. And so I was telling myself that, man, my team doesn't see me on this even kill anymore. my team has lost trust for with in my ability to handle a tough situation. Will they think that every other situation in the in going forward I'm going to be semi unhinged and um I learned these words which was they often never use in a never use in a professional context um which is the ultimatum of that will never happen again.

25:43>> So when you say something like that will never happen again you make a promise to yourself. >> Oh yeah >> right. And so I said, "I'm so sorry that will never happen again." And I have not lost my cool since then. And I'll tell you the um the behavioral change that my coach taught me. She said, "Anytime you feel like you're coming unhinged, you can only do one thing. You can ask a clarifying question."

26:09So as soon as I know that I'm getting riled up, Yeah. >> I say, "La, I'm kind of curious. uh could you help me understand how we did a A, B, and C? So now I reframe the question, I get a chance to catch up. >> So anytime I anytime I'm reeling, I go back to a a clarifying question. that has been the most valuable like uh de

26:34>> deescalating me mechanism mechanism for me especially if you do it in a group the group sees you with so much thoughtfulness and respect in this entire situation >> that one thing helped me so much and then making a promise to myself that I will never do that again >> that otherwise you're breaking a promise so if you ever want to fix something you just say I will never do that again That's so interesting. So now I'm like thinking where I could apply that.

27:00>> Now you're thinking, man, next time Sean asks a question, he's like as late. >> I ask Shiron. Oh, he's getting unhinged a little bit here. >> Well, unhinged. I don't know, though, cuz he's good at emotionally regulating. >> Well, but let me ask you this. This may this may bring us to what operators are doing day-to-day. So, let me kind of break down communication overall. Mhm. >> One of the things that I've seen you do super super well is whenever we come up with an idea or a new initiative, however small it could be like, hey, this is what we're doing for uh holiday coverage to this is what we're doing for a new building launch to this is what we're doing for making this investment to this is what we're doing in this new policy. you have a very thoughtful way of saying, "Okay, well, how should we message this to everybody so that no one feels like it was just thrust down upon them

27:49>> and because when you have a players, they all want to be a part of the company, not be told about what's happening, at least in most situations, right?" >> Yeah. So for the operator that's watching who is building and growing the team, can you talk about like when something happens, how do you think about how to communicate it? >> I think the first piece is that one thing that I always do with any situation is I'm always getting feedback from the entire company. So when it's something that's going to affect the whole company, then I make a conscious effort whether it's me or to have other people gather feedback from the entire company. Meaning not every single person, but a person at every level in the organization. And so then when I'm messaging something, I can say I've acknowledged the feedback at all levels.

28:32So it's like I've taken because I think if you really think about empathy, what is empathy? Which I think in order for a leader to message things well, they have to have empathy. I think empathy is the ability to take anybody's perspective. It's like I can have empathy for you because I can put myself in your shoes. I can have empathy for Kai because I can put myself in her shoes. I can have empathy for Luke because I can put myself in his shoes. you just go and you're like what would they be thinking during this and then I take that into how I would message people by basically addressing their concerns. Usually I one I bake their concerns into the solution.

29:04So it's like I'm trying to address as many global concerns as possible with the solution cannot catch all of them. And so then when you cannot catch all of them you explain what you've done to address the majority and that there are no perfect solutions. And I think I really try to hone in on those two things, which is like one, I've done my best, and I believe this is the right course to take. We're never going to have a perfect solution, but this is the best one for us right now. Um, two, the solution might change in a year. Things are always changing. We're growing.

29:32We're growing fast, and so things are going to alter. So like what works now might not work in a year, and that's okay. We'll revisit it then. This is good enough for now. And then I think the last one is thinking through, okay, you have these ancillary concerns left. I think that's either me I I think there's two things I have to do with that one. One I ask myself um do they need a different perspective or do we need a different procedure? Do they need a different perspective? Like >> because sometimes I think you can get caught up when you're empathetic and like oh well they and I'm like no no they need to learn actually right now to take my perspective.

30:04>> So sometimes I say they need a different perspective they need to understand mine as the person that's looking out for this business for the next ent like forever. um that this is the perspective I have which then I say okay so to address the rest of the concerns I might have to give them my perspective here's from my perspective why is it that we can't all have assigned desks in the new headquarters because if I want to assign you desks I have to make you be here a certain amount of days a week and I think you'd like that less than not having an assigned desk every day and that's because I've also been a high performer and I know what it's like to have those expectations so I made the trade-off right and I take responsibility for that next one is if it's not that they need my perspective then maybe there is something that I can change and maybe I I haven't worked through the solution enough. Maybe I say, you know, hey, I actually really consider your concerns and I don't think I took them into the first solution. So, let me go back and think about that. So, it's like when there's the leftovers after I've acknowledged everything, then I think, okay, is it that I need to teach them my perspective or do I have I not taken into account some of their things? I need to change the procedure I'm doing.

31:03>> I really like that. and and um listen if you're a business owner and you just heard what Leila just said and you're like man I I'm afraid to get the feedback. So let's talk about that for one second and then I have a framework that I can share. >> Yeah. >> If you're thinking through a solution or you're thinking through a problem or thinking through a challenge or thinking through something, how do you message for feedback without it influencing your decision at the end? Because I can see a business owner with a team of 10 saying, "Man, I can go ask what XYZ policy should be." I know they're all going to come back and say they want more time or more money or more tools or whatever. Now that I've given them the opportunity to say that, if I now come back and say no, I look like I'm not taking their perspective into play. Like how do you think about that?

31:51>> I think there's a couple things which is like one, you have to remember everyone has bias. I think about that all the time. What is their incentive in this situation? You know, I think that as the founder, the leader of the organization, you tend to have the most aligned incentives, but some people don't have the most aligned incentives. Sometimes they want people in the organization to fail because it would make them look better. Sometimes they have an incentive to work less because they have something going on at home. Sometimes they have an incentive. So, I'm always taking into account of the feedback I'm getting before I before I take into consideration what is everyone's individual incentives and bias. What are they bringing to me? Right? If we're talking about a new initiative that we want to launch, if there's five people on the team who have skills that apply to it and five people that don't, the ones that don't probably are going to find ways to say the new initiative won't work, whereas the ones who do are going to find ways to say it's going to work really well. So that's one thing that I take into consideration whenever I'm taking the feedback. Even when I take it for myself, when I'm saying, "Hey, do you guys think I should hire this role to help me?" I'm thinking, "This took me a while to learn as a leader." When people like, "No, I actually don't think you need that person." Oh, because you'd have a new boss. Of course, you don't want this person to help me because in helping me, they also take you away from me. Right?

32:54Um so that's the first thing that I think through. The second thing um is that a lot of the times I do is because I know people feel a lot of weight giving their perspective or they feel like what are you going to do with it? I just say like hey I'm asking a lot of people this question. I would love your feedback on this piece. Don't worry I'm going to take it with a grain of salt. Not making any decisions based on your feedback alone. >> That's so good. That that was what I was looking for on that. Right. Because it then it also >> reduces the stakes for both parties.

33:20Correct. Right. It makes their feel feedback valued, but at the same time it also preframes what is going to happen in the future. >> 100%. And sometimes I tell them too if they're afraid because it's going to be I say listen my hair's full of secrets not going anywhere. So like anything you tell me >> doesn't leave this. >> So I'll tell you one framework that I think about often which is probably the number one framework that I keep going through in my head. >> Yeah. >> Um in messaging anything is we've talked about this before is fears, frustrations, wants and aspirations.

33:48>> Oh yeah. That's really cool. Phil anytime I talk anytime there's an idea I'm just like okay we're talking we're talking to Phil what would be what was what would his general kind of fears be on this >> and then what is things that he's frustrated by what what are his wants for his career what are his aspirations all right cool now I have I can do that for collectively for the entire organization or the entire group of people that I'm helping and now that becomes a very easy pattern because it also removes my bias from the situation

34:17>> I'm thinking about their fears their frustrations their wants and their aspirations. But the best part is once you have that, you can actually build a messaging uh you know kind of cadence that talks to each of this. You can say hey many of you may be afraid that this this and this is going to happen to you. Let me show you why. Many of you are frustrated by this this and this and I wanted to include that and I know that all of you want this this this and this and so I wanted to make that as a part of everything but the aspiration of our organization is this that everyone wants to go on this journey that's why we build this right but if you do that over and over it's like insanely helpful because it takes you out of you and it allows you to think on them which is so much easier to message after that

35:00>> that's so much better now it's funny cuz like I do that sub I've baked it in but that such a good framework to like just let's just run it through the the chat TBT of fears, frustration, wants, and aspirations. >> But but and the interesting part is you could also use it as a avatar with AI. You know, I think you can do fierce, frustrations, wants, and aspirations of your clients when you're messaging something. >> Oh my gosh. Yeah. >> Right. If you're changing pricing, people instantly go to, oh, I'm changing pricing. They're going to get frustrated. Uh it's going to drop in value. It's going to this and that. You can say, "Hey, hey, AI, I'm trying to raise pricing from, you know, $1,000 a month to $1,500 a month on my service.

35:38My core avatar is home buyers." >> Yeah. >> This is a service that we provide. Can you walk me through what their fears would be, what their frustrations would be, what their wants would be, what their aspirations would be? >> Super super good. >> Right. And here's my old pricing and my new pricing. Based on those, can you tell me where I'm misaligned? And it literally give you a starting point for having a discussion that is not in your head. >> Yeah. No, that's really good. Should we answer our questions? >> Let's uh yeah, let's do some questions. Let's >> answer these questions. I don't know what your framework for this is, but I'll give you my framework, which is just there's expectations. And if you want to improve retention, then results or delivery has to meet or exceed expectations. And you can do that in two ways, which is like one, if you want to make sure that you're always meeting or exceeding, then what you tell them is going to happen is actually you've lowered it by about 15% of what you are sure is going to happen. So you give yourself buffer room. If I'm telling them where the company's going to go, I'm going to like underindex by 15%.

36:33Because I want to provide myself with buffer because I would like when they come in that for them to be overjoyed about the fact that the company's actually doing better and growing faster than I might have expla explained on the interview. The other way that you can do that is by increasing your ability to deliver on the expectations. But I always think it's easier just to position it as anything that when coming in, I think I always make it sound worse than it is. And I don't make the wins sound as good as they are. not by like demeaning the company and being like it's a losing company. Like of course we're a winning team, but I'm not going to oversell. And I think a lot of the time what happens is that people are desperate to get people in and so they kind of oversell on the interview process. They oversell in the job description. They oversell in their in their website. And then when people come in, they feel undersold because their expectations are here, but reality is here. So you want it that either they're matched or that reality is better than the expectations. When I think about kind of retention, I I I don't love the word because when I think about retention, I feel like we are putting a chokeolder on somebody and having forcing them to stay here.

37:34>> Yeah. >> U so I think language is important because the limits of your language are the limits of your world. >> However, connection is really good, right? I think people come for the opportunity stay for the connection. I think about this framework as rapport, results, reward. rapport is if I have a really good relationship with Ila and I can talk with her and I feel like the relationship exists then it feels safe. One of the things that most you know most people don't do well is they make the relationship about the the safety about the relationship and that's really hard. So, for example, if I was in a room with Ila and and we were in a meeting and I wanted to share something vulnerable with her, I would not say, um, hey, I'm sharing this with you, you know, is this like I, you know, is it okay for me to share something vulnerable with you? I say, hey, I'm just assuming that this is a safe room.

38:22I create the safety of the environment. That way, it doesn't put Leila in a safe spot in in a tight spot. Right? So, I get rapport by making the environment safe. Therefore, the people in the environment are safe. Right? So, that's number one. The results are we all need to be very very clear that whatever you say you're going to do you're going to do. So this is the say do ratio. Hey I Phil said I'm going to deliver on X. I deliver on X. Phil freaking great job because whatever you said you're going to do you're going to do and I'm going to recognize you for that. And the third is what is the reward? Hey Phil wants to go and become you know a play for the Anaheim Ducks. Awesome. Right. Well, if we are not committed to getting Phil to the point where he is on a path to paying for the Anaheim Ducks, I am sorry. We have failed because we need to say, "Hey, this is your stepping stone to go doing that. Let's do whatever we can to go doing that." So, if we miss the rapport, you don't get the safety.

39:16If we miss the results, you don't get good work. And if you don't if you miss the reward, they just never stay longer. >> Yeah. >> So, I always think about rapport, results, reward. No, it's good because I hit the beginning, but you hit the whole journey, which is fantastic. I think it's important. The last one you said, like you always have to be thinking about their goal. >> Yeah. >> I think that's that's one of the most important things that I feel like I didn't understand until probably this second to last year with gym launch is like I always have to know their goal and keep that in mind as much if not more than my own. Hey, I wanna I if there was I'll give you the uh entire value of this entire episode with a question that I'm gonna ask Leila which she has no idea about. Oh god.

39:55>> When you and I've talked often about this and this is your idea. >> Okay. >> When you're talking to managers, owners, leaders, team leaders, etc. when they're talking to their team members and let's say they want to uh guide their direction differently, right? Hey, they're doing something that could be done better. uh they could improve performance in some way. It feels like a strange conversation and you've always talked about anchoring. Can you talk about like how you have that conversation without it being an awkward conversation?

40:23>> Yeah, I think I just desperately seek to avoid awkward conversations and and hard shitty ones. So, uh I found what I consider a better way, which is anchor to their goal. Um so, I would start the conversation with like, "Hey, Sean, you told me that you want to own the Anaheim Goats, right?" Yes. Amazing. Um, so I want to get you there. And I look at it like we're here like I'm your partner to get to the Anaheim Ducks. So I think that if we want to get to the Anaheim Ducks, what we need to do is what I would think we should start doing is I think you should start doing XYZ. And if you do that, I think you'll get there faster than if you do it the way you're currently doing it. Do you think What do you think?

40:58>> Yeah. I I didn't see it that way, but yeah, that that makes sense. >> I just think I just think it'll get us there faster. That's like Do you agree? >> So good. It's so so good. So it's like can you get it if you have their goal and it's like how can I get you there faster with less pain with more fun >> cuz so just to contextualize this for everybody right so let's say you have a team member who does good work but takes too long >> right and you know that their goal is to you know I don't know be CFO someday I'm just making this up right you can say hey Jimmy I know that your goal is to be the CFO someday and you do insane work but in a fastmoving organization um do you agree that we have to make some fast decisions. One of the things that I think that will get you there much faster is this faster turn of decisions which we know that sometimes you may make the wrong one and that's okay. The way we fix that is us talking about it together. But again, you make it about about Jimmy wanting to become CO wanting to become CFO. I I think yes. And I think another one that you can do is um if you don't Okay, so here's one. If you don't know their goal, if you're going in the conversation, you don't know their goal. I always use this line, which now my whole team's going to know.

42:04But I'm like, do you know what would make you a [ __ ] weapon? So good. Then they're like, "What?" I'm like, "If it's just this one piece, the missing piece. The It's the [ __ ] weapon, and it's the missing piece." The missing piece is like, "You're [ __ ] grinding. You're communicating well, you're an amazing teammate, but you just don't address the hard conversations quite soon enough. The moment that we fix that, you are [ __ ] unstoppable." >> Yeah. >> And I just want to get you there. So like let's just work on this one thing for the next two months and like

42:34>> oh it's gonna be game day over. >> Yeah. >> Um especially works with sales teams. >> I I wish we had started with these questions because this is actually way more valuable. Um the one thing that I will tell the number one reason why you have team members that underperform is not because they are underperforming. It's because they just don't know how to do something. It is our responsibility to actually teach people how to do something. So, for example, if you've never actually let a person go, you're going to be really nervous because you don't know what to say because no one has taught you how to let a person go, right? No script.

43:07>> No, you have no script for that. Or if you don't know how to, you know, if you don't know how to do a reconciliation, no one's ever taught you doing that. So, you don't know how to do that. So, it's our job to teach people to do that. I would just assume that they don't know how to do it and say, "Hey, this one thing will get you there faster. Can I show you one way that I do it?" And and come up with your own way. So now you're like, I'll give you mine, but you can add your own sauce to it. But I think the way to get people better is not to tell them to do something better. Is to like teach them how to do it.

43:33>> Teach them. You know, one of my favorite things to ask people too is, "Do you want me to do the V1? How about I do the V1 or or do you want to do it?" And then they feel safe like, "Oh, no, no, no." Cuz then it's like if they don't know how to do, they're like, "You do the V1." And I'm like, "Okay, great. I'll do a V1 and send it over to you." Or they're like, "Oh, no. I got the V1." So it's like, "Oh, you have enough reps in the tank." >> Yeah. >> It's like then they feel like it's okay that I don't know how to do it. You know what I mean? >> It's so good. That's awesome. This is my favorite.

43:58>> Go for it. It me find money. >> The biggest misconception is thinking that you have to pay top money for people because everyone thinks that hey, I've got a talent and I have to pay a plus money for it. It is not the case. In a lot of ways, you can start a consulting for equity. In a lot of ways, you can say, hey, you want this? I will promote your current product. In a lot of ways it's like hey why don't you and I do a collaboration series together and then maybe you can spend time consulting with my team. It is there is you just have to accept that there is another way where if if if money was not an issue what else how else would I kind of compensate this person and I actually will ask the person that hey let's just put money aside if if we could get paid an adamame and it was not money what would like what else is important to you uh to kind of kick off this relationship because I just want to get started to show how amazing this could be working together and now you cocreate what a nonmoni way is to get that up and running and then when you create a result then you could do something with that result right so I there there are ways to do it but it is hard when you don't co-create it if I just said hey Phil would you like would you trade workouts like you're like bro that's not I'm not interested in that but if you said if money was not on the table what else could we work with for us to kick get this started I think that allows for a co-creation of it in some way

45:28>> you know what co-creation is too the currency of co-creation is freedom. Huh? >> They have freedom in your company working for you because autonomy is freedom, right? So now they have autonomy. So they're trading working at some big corporation getting all this money, but they don't have freedom. So now they say, well, I want to work for somebody who I now I get freedom, but you do get less money. So like one thing I tell people a lot of times when they come in, they're like, I don't want to work at this because all this stuff.

45:53Hey, but why don't you pay as much as that that and I'm like freedom money? you told me that you want to create item. There's trade-offs. It's just not going to come at every company. You can't I mean, we've talked about this like if the value proposition is it's like you have 100% of everything. It's like you don't have a value proposition. You're just shoveling. You're just too much. >> Yeah. >> So, it's like your value prop is freedom and autonomy, not money. So, sell to them. And then it's like I mean, we've had people join this company have taken like 50% of HCS. They were like absurdly funded VC backed companies, but they were like this, you know, and they couldn't do anything. They couldn't make decisions. there was red tape everywhere and they came here and took a 50% pay cut because they were like I just want freedom like yeah

46:31>> and I think that we get that and so that's probably what attracts a lot of people here. >> I would the another thing that I would say is um the depth of your pipeline is going to be so dependent on the uh the compensation that you can offer. Meaning uh we always talk about this internally which is talent trumps timing. you find somebody that is extremely talented, you've got to find a way to engage with them even if it's the smallest possible way. And so we are attracting, we are recruiting, we are connecting for the for the role we don't even have for the future. So I'm sorry in a lot of ways Leila and I are professional recruiters.

47:12That is our job. We that is there. If you take everything else off the table, our only job is to work super super hard and just be professional recruiters. That is if if we do that job well, we win. It's it's really true. And I think that's why also when people ask like what's the number one skill I should get if I'm going in the business? I'm like sales because it's you know like you don't stop selling like the the I I've literally thought like I feel like I'm like one of the top sales people in the company because I have to sell people on the opportunity of joining the company all the time which is it's it's intangible. There's no certainty.

47:45There's no you know you don't get a refund like you know what I mean? There's like so many things to overcome there. Um I also just think going with that question that they're asking is like how do you get a talent is like I remember uh one of my first mentors told me this. He said um a talent um if you want to get a talent and you don't have the experience and you can't pay as much as them, you better be a better [ __ ] person than all of them. >> And I was like what do you mean by that?

48:10He's like the one thing he told me this I remember he's like the one thing you have going for you is you're actually a good person. And I was like I don't even understand that people have businesses or are not good people. That's crazy. Um, and he was like, "But you should lean into that." He was like, "Because nobody with high character will work for somebody with lesser character than them." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that clicked for me, which I remember thinking every skill I have at some point, somebody will be better than me at it. But if I can just continue to double down on my character and my integrity and my values, and if that is the most potent thing I can become, then like that, I will never have to outsource that. I will never have to find somebody who can replace that. You know what I mean?

48:46>> I love it. I will say uh golden nugget number two on this one, if you're not listening to anything else, you should listen to this. The thing that Leila and I talk about the most is how people show up for interviews. I will say this, if you no matter who you are, if you're a founder, entrepreneur, you don't think you're interviewing, you are interviewing. And if you're a teammate and you want to lead or want to work at a company, it is not an interview. You're showing up for a client presentation. Just change your frame from showing up for an interview to showing up for a client presentation.

49:20It is not about what they're going to ask you. It is about what you're going to present. If you would you show for a client presentation with not well-dressed, not well prepped, no slide deck, not pre-done homework, not like a road map for where the company is going, not you're like, "Hey, um, I I had a a a person said, "Hey, I went through your website and while I was doing all this research, a couple of things really bothered me and I know that this is probably going to take away my shot at this role, but I wanted to share this with you. There are nine typos on your website."

49:52You know what the detail oriented that is insane. >> Yeah, >> it's insane. And so, but that's a he showed up for a client presentation. >> And yeah, that that that shift is honestly so important for people to understand because I think when we talk about like what are the best interviews, it's when people present to us the argument of like this is why I should be here because we show up to those calls with this is why you should join. It's a co- you know what I mean? And so it's like if you bring that and then they just bring like nothing, it's very difficult.

50:21>> Yeah. And and it also affects the energy of the interview. You're waiting for Chiron to ask you questions. You're waiting for Leila to say, "Tell me about a time one." That tell me about a time one. Are you serious? Like we don't Welcome to AI. Welcome to a world of collaboration. I don't need a time when you're doing anything. I just need you to show me how good you are. And I have 20 minutes for you to show me. Like show me how good you are. Well, if you think about it too, like when the person isn't presenting to you, you're having to pull from them. So, they put the work on you rather than taking the work away. I think the best thing that ever had happened was when I interviewed Yas mean for the EA role and I just said, well, to be honest, I've never interviewed for this role. She goes, let me just tell you what I'm going to do. And then the whole call was sort of just being like, here's how I'm going to do this. Here's how I'm going to onboard myself. Here's how I'm going to like she gave me the instruction manual for how she was going to do her job. And I was like, this is amazing. She already took like I didn't have to talk the whole like immediately like you create immediate relief.

51:13>> It's so good. >> And so it's like if you think about if humans we ultimately follow our emotions it's like when you interview with somebody if they make it really hard for you to pull out then it's like you're just going to be like oh this feels it feels heavy like a lot of work. >> So it's like that doesn't feel good. I want you to I'm hiring you to create relief in the organization. >> That's it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So good. >> Yeah. Such a good frame that you Yeah. Awesome. I don't know how you see this, but I I answer it pretty nuanced, which is like the same the hires that you make in one company are not the hires you make in another company because in the beginning, you are essentially the company and you and you and you and me and you are all different. And so, what am I bad at and what do I hate doing?

51:52That are the lowest dollar per hour that I can hire for is usually what I'm going to try and hire first. What am I worst at? Right? So like for me when I first started a gym launch, it was like one of the first things like I need it. That was literally one of the first rules. I'm like listen I'm not that techy. I don't have any interest in learning it. I don't think it's my skill. I think everyone knows like people I'm more a people centric leader. So like tech is just not my thing. So the first thing I was like I need it and I also need finance. I remember I was doing the books and I was like what the [ __ ] I'm doing here? Yeah. Can you imagine that?

52:22Scary at this point. Um and filing tax returns and I was like oh my gosh. So then I said, okay, what are the two things uh that are critical to the business growth, but also I'm really bad at doing finance and it. So in my first six hires, those were two of the people that I hired for. And so I think everyone has to think that way. You have to zoom out for a second and say, you know, what are the things I'm doing of the things I'm doing? What am I good at? What am I bad at? What do I like? What do I hate? And I think you first try to get rid of the things that you're bad at and that you hate that are the lowest dollar per hour in there. And then you work your way up from there. And eventually you just try to get to the things that you're very good at that you love doing. But that comes after many years of work because I think it's kind of like growing a child. It's like well in the beginning like you're still going to probably have to change the diapers and uh cuz it's it just wears diapers for a couple years. You're just going to have to do that. Um, but I think eventually you can get to a point probably by year I feel like between years five and seven are where are the years where like it's grown to a point where you can really operate in your sweet spot and like not have to veer off very often and you don't even have to jump in when things go wrong cuz there's other people that can jump in. But until then, I think you're constantly going through the cycle of like what do I suck at and I'm not good at that I should get off my plate. I think another piece to it is um like I I asked you this yesterday. I said like sometimes I have a hard time knowing where am I best utilized in the company, right? And so I think it's also zooming out and saying where am I best utilized, where am I strongest that I should double down on and continue to do. And I think knowing that as well is important to success because it's just as important to know what you should get off your plate as it is what you should keep on your plate because a lot of people don't keep stuff on. It's like they are a marketing genius but they it just it frustrates them and so every once in a while they're like I got to get this off my plate. this marketing [ __ ] It's like, oh, the engine for the entire company you're world class at. That's going to be tough. That's probably going to take a couple years, 18 months to get because you're probably going to need you're a unicorn. We got to get like six allstars to replace you.

54:25>> Um, so that's how I think of it with a a first-time founder. And I think you would probably bring it fairly different perspective as well. >> No, I I think you're right. The um I think about it in two ways. Yeah. The first way is >> I think about what would be the last thing that I would give up. Yeah. Oh, that's good. If you think about Hayes, so you take Alex, right? If you say what would be the last thing he would give up, he would the last thing he would be give up would be marketing. >> Yeah.

54:50>> Right. So, so you know that that is off the plate, which also means that hey, I'm going to hold on to that because that is driving the business. For founders in smaller companies, they are everything. And if if they always think that, well, if I bring someone over and they leave, then I have to take that job back. It's not that taking the job back, it's that the rest of the company will struggle. So if one if you can just understand that what would be the last thing you would give up? Then you start to realize that hey am I okay with that?

55:15Cool. That was the original reason why I got into this. So I'm that would be the last thing I would give up. The second thing I think about is um what is the farthest thing from revenue that I have to do? >> That's a good one. >> Right. >> Because we say lowest dollar per hour, it's usually farthest from revenue. >> Yeah. So it's like I have to deliver this, I have to do all of this, but at the end of the month I have to do stripe reconciliations that really are affecting me and no one else can do this. That is not true. So just assume that anybody else can do whatever you're doing, but what is the farthest thing from revenue and then you just keep backfilling farthest thing from revenue and then it'll finally come to the thing that you don't want to give up.

55:50>> I like that frame. Yeah, it's a good one. That's like I remember telling people when we had Jim Motion it was like profiting like over a million a month and I was like I'm still taking like the highest level sales calls and they were like what like you have a team of 50 and I was like I I didn't want to skip the steps like I I I don't want to if I outsource myself from all these things that drive revenue at once then revenue will dip too much. >> Right. Yeah. >> Right. Good. >> And just those two things allow you to start to have a better conversation. So, you can actually talk to a coach or a mentor or a mastermind group saying, "Hey, um, I'm really jammed. I can't grow the business. The thing that I don't want to give up is sales because I have all the sales relationship. The the things that are the farthest away from revenue are these four things. I I I'd love some help on figuring out which one to to give up first." Now, the group, the coach, the mentor can actually give you some feedback on exactly how to do that. And that gives you some safety and relief. Most people don't know what to give up because they don't know how to talk about it with somebody. If you know how to talk about it with somebody, you can get some good advice around it. So having a framework of being able to talk about it will probably get you better advice.

56:52>> Yeah. Which means you also know what you're doing. When I say, "Hey, what are you working on?" They're like, "Everything." Well, that's not helpful. You know, I think auditing your time, auditing your calendar, spending time looking at where does my time go? I think we spend a lot of time looking at that. We talk about it all the time. Like, where's my time going? Oh my gosh, I noticed it's disproportionately going here. We should get a resource here. the um one of the best um frames that I got was from a sales coach maybe like 10 years ago. >> Yeah.

57:18>> And he said to me, "A lot of people try to say they're going to do 10 sales calls this week." They're like, "If I do 10 sales calls a week and my conversion is 60%, then I will close six out of 10 and therefore the math, right?" And I said, "Yeah, I do that, too." He goes, "Instead of doing that, your job is to put 10 sales call blocks on your calendar, and every week your job is to fill each of those blocks." So instead of saying, "I'm going to schedule 10 sales calls." He's like, "You've got 10 sales call blocks on your calendar. You only have two left. You got to schedule those." So every week you wake up saying, "I got to fill these 10 blocks that I did." And that's what changed everything for me because I I knew that I knew where my time was going now because I had pre-built the big rocks of those 10 sales blocks. You scheduled your priorities,

58:01>> correct? >> Rather than scheduling >> around them. Yeah. And now you know that if you missed a week, you're like, "Oh, I did I did eight out of 10. You didn't." Like those two blocks were unfilled. Like you underperformed and there's no weights right in front of you. You cannot get away from that. >> And that just makes you know that I got two more slots to fill this week. >> Yeah, that's really good. I'm like thinking how I can do that with myself and certain thing that just take away turning

58:28>> more free blocks for you. >> So many of them. We have so many free blocks. >> The oneonone queen right here. >> I'm actually I'm super curious what you would say about this one. >> No agenda. No meeting. >> No memo. No meeting. >> No memo. Yeah. Write a [ __ ] memo. >> Uh why do you deserve my time? >> Well, unstructured meetings are not productive. We all have to just agree to that as a baseline. One-on- ones are a very sacred time to help with rapport, results, and reward. You have to like figure that out. So, Leo and I do one-on-one the same like we talk about this the same way, which is we have a running log on everything that we're thinking about. And when we get on our one-on-one, we just go to our running log and we just work through everything that's on our log. No agenda, no meeting. I'd say that's the the first thing. The second is if you're not if you don't have some kind of weekly end of week reporting cadence, it will dramatically affect how you run 101's because you don't know what you worked on that past week. You don't know what the struggles were or the or the blocks were. Therefore, you don't know what to actually fix to move the ball forward.

59:29The easiest way to fix one-on- ones is to start a end of week reporting cadence. If you do that, you'll know exactly what to talk about in the one-on- ones. >> Yeah, it's it's a thousand% true. I was just playing my template to guide my >> No, you I think you sharing uh you've done one-on- ones across orgs for a while. I will say this one thing. Um as I actually don't mind reworking one-on-one structures based on the uh the seniority of the person, thousand%.

1:00:01>> Right. You don't need a lot of structure with the highest people in the company. >> Correct. Cuz they're they intuitively will not waste your time. >> Correct. And if anything, they're like, I will maximize this time by bringing a chunky problem that we haven't had time to talk about. >> That's exactly right. And the second is sometimes in your organization, if you're doing a one-on-one some, let's say uh let's say you're working with your CFO and that's a direct report and you're working on a one-on-one and they're going through a insane finance transformation. Like the last thing you want them to do is to distract them from that big mega focus for that quarter. If that's their only goal, you just keep asking them about that goal and nothing else,

1:00:35>> right? Yeah. It's funny because with the book launch I've done that with two people that uh well one rolls into me one doesn't is like we had call and I was like don't want to talk about that parking lot parking lot we only focus here and then I was like all right well we don't need as much time even right great that's fine but I'm not going to distract you from this cuz the rest of this needs to come after the way that I like doing it is like I would say for like if you're if you're chunking up to like individual contributors and not senior and executive but like management the framework I like to use is like I essentially send I have a template which is like they have to fill it out ahead of time so then I can digest it and decide okay do I think these are the priorities to discuss and if I need to move calls the EA need to move anything they also know hey that's a priority this is not um the first is like quick wins just give me like any quick wins this week since we last talked the second is what are your challenges so it's essentially like write down all the blockers or roadblocks you have right now and why they exist and then the last one is feedback where's an area that you want me to give you feedback on this week and I like I really like that one it's like quick wins like starting posit positive, then it's like, okay, tell me what your problems are. This is the meaty part that we're going to go back and forth on. Usually, I do thinking ahead of time on that one. And then the last one is just, okay, where do you want feedback from me, which actually gives me insight into it's always keeping in mind where's the goal? Where are we going? And I actually I added that one in like eight months ago. And I really like that one because it's like it just keeps it keeps me synced up with like they have that greater goal, but then I'm like, oh, this is what they're wanting to know. Am I doing a good job or not on this thing specifically? Which is cool. I don't know how you think about this, but I I have learned to take my one-on- ones very seriously. Uh because a lot of people have approached generally people approach one-on- ones as the I, you know, my I hate organizational hierarchy. That's just like not my jam. However, if it's a uh you know manager with a with a direct report, the manager generally assumes that the direct report the one-on-one is for the direct report, which is correct, but the direct report has to do all the work. And Leila said something really interesting there where she said, "Hey, I'm going to prep for this oneonone."

1:02:40>> Yeah. And I don't think managers prep for their one-on- ones. They just show up with whatever the topic is show. They're like, "Oh, this is my time with you. I need to do this thing." and I will just respond and I will react. And a lot of times I'll show up with my one-on-one saying, "Hey, I have two things. Uh, do you want me to give them to you up front so we can add the agenda or should I do it at the end?" Yeah. It's like, "Well, why don't you tell me now and we can figure that out?" So, I always show up with a couple things because it forces me to have thought about that oneonone in a lot of ways.

1:03:09So, I would just offer that if you're a manager and you're doing one-on- ones and you're not spending time thinking about the one-on- ones, uh, you're leaving a lot of like impact and opportunity on the table. I think it also just shows how many shits you give. You know what I mean? Like it's like it's crazy. But it's like I look at that way which is like if somebody doesn't take the time to prep my 101 who needs it to be prepped as like the you know what I mean? Like I I can gauge in the organization then like I don't take it seriously or like I have gotten to the point now where I'll be like then we'll cancel it because if you you don't have the time to write a memo or even fill out an agenda about what we need to talk about. It's not worth either of our time. We're just doing a disservice to the whole org. And then I would say to the same degree I've learned that I prep. So one I do end of week reports I note things that I want to discuss in the one-on- ones and then the morning of when I like say I have four one ones that day that I'm doing again. Is this still a priority? Should like re-checking to be like is this the best use of our 30 minutes together?

1:04:00>> Yeah. >> Because it's like it is funny though cuz you said that cuz like I think of the one ones as like this is the most facetime somebody gets with me in the company and so their entire impression of me and my reputation with them is based on this one call. So it's like why wouldn't you take it seriously? Yeah. >> Like they if they want to stay here, if they feel safe here, if they feel like they can express, you know, what's going on in the or like all of that comes down to how I show up to that one call. So it's funny cuz like I used to try to do all my one ones in one day and then I told my team I was like, "Dude, I can't because like I have to have good energy for all of them. Otherwise, I feel like I'm laying them down cuz like they got okay, three weeks in a row Neil got shitty Leila."

1:04:36>> Yeah. >> Like I feel bad. I don't want to be shitty Leila to my one ones. Yeah. You know, because it used to be like, "Oh, oneonone's like we can put them after all these calls." I'm like, "No, no, that's bad." They they need their own. So, I try to have like two days where I have 50 50%. I like that setup. I will do an operational hack that maybe a few people can use. Leila and I use this, which is if you're an organization that uses Slack.

1:05:00>> The one thing that I love is in every direct message channel. So, if it's a if it's Leila and I, we have a canvas >> that is just built for Leila 101. And anytime we're chatting about something, we're like, "Yeah, we should talk about that." I instantly just add it to my canvas so I don't lose context of going to a doc, writing it in note, etc. It's all managed in the canvas. It's all managed on jam topics. >> It's all the jam topics. And as we finish it up, you can actually put the check boxes around it. You can also link things.

1:05:27>> You can link things to it. You can make comments around it. But what we have noticed in we spend a lot of time on Slack that the conversation ends up getting messy and you realize that you need time to talk about it and you just convert it into a into a one more topic >> and then you can see that the other person added it which is nice. Like I'll see like Shiron added to the canvas and I'm like oh [ __ ] it's that thing.