Die unerzählte Geschichte von Leila Hormozi

0:00So many people have work ethic, they have diligence, they have grit, but they make one wrong decision. Whenever I made a decision where it's like it's never been the wrong decision. >> If there was someone born with a shitty script, it must be Leila Horosi. Broke, arrested six times before 19, 85 lbs overweight, but somehow by the age of 28, she crossed $100 million in net worth as a co-founder and CEO of three companies. currently the co-founder and CEO of acquisition.com, overseeing a portfolio of over $250 million in annual revenue, built a global audience of millions, and hosts one of my favorite podcasts, Build with Lea Horoszi.

0:36>> The biggest thing I want people to take away when they're thinking about rebrand is >> Welcome to the Marketing Bestie podcast, joined by the smartest founders, CMOs, and culture shapers to help you and your business unlock your unlimited potential. All resources are linked below. Guys, Leila is one of the smartest and most hardworking women I know. So, you're in for a treat. I want to talk about love. >> When he was quote unquote a sinking ship, got a DUI, lost all the money, you had to go back to your parents. What was it that made you decide to stay? As you hear all about Leila Hormos's lifechanging decisions, one of the biggest ones that she and I share, building a personal brand. For her, even with $100 million net worth at 28, it multiplied her success. For me, it helped me quit the job I hated. Get paid to do what I love, learn and grow with you. And speak to Olivia Rodrigo and Fortune 500 leaders all on my own time.

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2:16>> I think I found a great business. It's this business called Stan >> where creators earn anywhere from tens of thousands to millions. I'll show you how inside the challenge. You don't need to sign up for Stan to join the early access. But if you are entrepreneurial, check out their free trial. You'll be ahead of the curve before the guy drops. Leila, welcome. >> Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

2:38>> Excited to have you. To start off as the queen of rebrand from broke to 100 million exit and now the CEO and co-founder of private equity firm Acquisition.com, from 85 pounds overweight to winning fitness competitions. You struck me as someone with a tremendous track record of resilience and consistency, but when is it the right time to pivot and rebrand and when is it giving up too early?

3:09>> When I think about rebrand, right, I'm like, what does that mean? >> Yeah. >> Because, you know, it's interesting. I was in the car talking with Shai on the way here and we were talking about brand in general and I never thought at any point when I was doing any of these things like, oh, I'm going to rebrand myself. Instead, I'm thinking I want to be a different person because I no longer respect and admire the person I am right now and I want to be somebody different. And I think the brand followed that. So each time that I had a quote rebrand, I think it was because I realized that I was no longer in alignment with who I wanted to be. And I like to say that I want my thoughts and my words to align with my actions. And I felt like at each of those points, it was like they weren't lining up, right?

3:50And so I think that when those things don't line up, that's when life feels hard. I think a lot of people then are seeking a rebrand. But what it really is is that you're seeking to be a different person. I mean, like truthfully, because a lot of people, they come to me and they say, "Well, what do I do about my brand?" And I'm like, "Well, who are you?" And I think this is very difficult because if I wanted to do a rebrand because I want a certain type of audience and I want to reach them. I can do that and I can do it for a couple years and I'm sure it'll work to a degree, but the question is, how long does it work for? because I'm trying to be a version of somebody that I'm not.

4:22I'm trying to be somebody for other people, not for myself. >> And so for me, it's like the way I think about it is that I have to rebrand in a way that helps me, serves me, makes me respect me because that's the long game. I'm never going to want to stop doing that. I'm never going to want to stop interacting with people who want to know who I truly am rather than who I am trying to be for other people. And so I think ultimately the biggest thing I want people to take away when they're thinking about rebrand is are you going to be happy with the person that you rebrand yourself to be at the end of the day or is it just that other people are going to clap for you? And I think that what's difficult is I have had versions of myself for example where I can be really good at something and people can really applaud me for it.

5:02>> I can really hate it. Wow. >> And that is probably a very dangerous place to be. And I think that's where rebranding gets really tough because a lot of people rebrand. They do something and then people clap for them on the internet. Yes. They're like, "You did great. You look amazing. You this, you that." And now you're just doing things to get the approval from people that you don't even like and know and you are alone all day thinking of content to serve these people that you don't even care about, that don't love you and that will go click on the next person when they see them passing by on the newsfeed. I think it all comes from a place of how do I become the best, most respectable version of myself? and the rebrand just happens and then it's sustainable because it's like I'm doing it for myself and for me whenever I've made a decision where it's like I will respect myself more by doing this it's never been the wrong decision and I think because of that then rand or you know success or those things follow but they're not why I've done it

5:55>> even in the beginning like when I said I'm going to lose all this weight I'm going to stop being broke I didn't fit in people are like that's not cool like we're out partying we're doing all this stuff We're socializing. We're working these jobs that pay well. And like I was like, I'm going to get a job that doesn't pay well, but where I think I can learn. I'm not going to get my nails done, my hair. I looked like a loser in the moment. But I said to myself, I'll respect myself so much more if I put in the work now because I think that's what's going to get me to be the person I want to be. And it's very uncomfortable to rebrand because for a short period of time, you look worse, not better. Because when you're putting in the work and you're doing all these things and you're not going to see it for 6 to 12 months, right? because it's like I'm becoming the person that I will respect, not that everybody else will clap for.

6:39>> I think you have a really healthy relationship for praise and hate where even when it comes to praise, you're like, that's living for someone else's preference. And it just really shows that you have a very strong sense of clarity about who you are as a person and what you value. I'm also curious like how did you find your values? How did you realize them and have they evolved over time?

7:07>> You know what's funny is that when I was younger, I didn't really have values, but I always was like, I just want to be a good person. >> A >> like I know it sounds lame, but like if you met my dad, you would understand. Like he's such a good human. And I was just like, I just want to be as good of a person as my dad. Like I just want to be a good person. >> That's amazing. >> I didn't even know what good person meant. But it did lead me to get taken advantage of a lot. Um, and it wasn't until I started building my first business, Gym Launch, where I learned that you create these values for the company, and these values in the company attract the people that you want in there. They're how you behave, what you abide by. And I started doing more research on values. And then I came across a lot of early studies on psychology around human values and people who have values. And I believe it was Steven Hayes and Albert Ellis. And they both talked a lot about how people who have values have significantly less stress, more emotional stability, they're happier, they're healthier, they live longer. And so then I was like, well, that's crazy. Like I have them for my company, but like what are my values for myself? And then it's been an evolution and it's been a process, but I created a mantra for myself as well as values about seven years ago. And it's really served me because what it's allowed me to do is navigate life living for my values rather than for a person or even for my feelings. And I think that's helped me a ton because I don't know about you, but like I can get really anxious.

8:31>> I have a lot of things I'm scared of. >> Very hard to tell from an external point of view. >> I know sometimes I watch myself and I'm like crazy because she doesn't seem like she's but terrified. It's just because I've worked on it so much because I think the difference is I can have fears and I can have things that make me anxious but they don't own me. Yeah. And that's because my values are what I serve. And I think about it like I have a not a board of directors, but like a board of values. It's like every time I make a decision, should I be friends with this person? Should I put this piece of content out? Should I say this?

8:59Should I hire this person? Should I make this decision? I run it through the values. And then I'm like, okay, it aligns or it doesn't align. And if it doesn't align, then I'm not going to do it no matter what. If it does align, I'm going to do it no matter what. No matter how I feel or no matter what other people say. Because I know at the end of the day, I want to go to bed feeling like I was true to myself. I've gone through enough times in my life, and I think I did early on, where I lived for other people, for their approval, to make them happy, to appease them, to make their lives easier, and I was miserable.

9:28>> And so, I was just like, I never want to go back there. My values have evolved over time, you know, like I think that the most important value to me over time through and through, has been honesty. And it's like the most trivial one, but I think a lot of people say it, but they don't actually live it. And I I'm not good at taking credit for things, but I'm like, I am honest. Like I may not be perfect. I may not always work as hard as somebody. I may not always make the best, but I am honest. I will be honest, and I will always tell the truth. Al to a point where it's like compulsive. And so that's something that I realized probably about two and a half years ago.

9:59And then I was like, that is definitely my deepest value that I value of myself and of other people is just honesty. You know, even people look at my husband, Alex, and he can be brutal sometimes, and he can be strong and brute force and intimidating, >> but man, from day one, he was honest with me about everything. He has never lied to me. He's even if it hurts to tell the truth, he always does. And I care so much more about that than whatever opinion or fleeting issue there is in the moment.

10:24>> That's amazing. I think honesty is the greatest form of kindness where >> you are a proponent of being kind, not nice. So, I really love that. It's true. >> I want to dive into personal branding. >> Yeah. >> First of all, congrats on hitting 1 million on Instagram in such a short period of time. >> Thanks. >> How important was it for you to become forward facing as a brand founder?

10:47>> It wasn't about wanting to have personal brand as much as it was wanting to evolve as a person. >> I'll put it like this. Like whenever I'm thinking like what should I be focused on? What should I do? I always ask myself what I'm most scared of. >> And so I'm like what am I most scared of? And when I was in my last company, people kept saying to me, you should make content. Like if you put more content out there, the employees would see, you know, all we see right now is Alex and like because he makes content, but like you run the whole team, but you don't put any content. We don't know what you're about. They have to learn once they come in. And I was like, that makes a lot of sense. And so I kept saying I was going to start a podcast. I even like had a podcast cover. I like, you know, and I kept writing YouTube video scripts, but not like recording them. And finally, I just got so fed up with myself one day. I was like, "This is not about wanting to make content."

11:31And it can't be about that. It's about me overcoming my own fears. And I was And I think probably also because like I grew up getting made fun of for how I looked. I was overweight. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Like just bullying straight out based on a >> Yeah. Like I was not cool in middle school or the beginning of high school. I wasn't cool. >> Very hard to imagine from today's point of view. >> Yeah. Plastic surgery. Um >> I love the honesty and transparency. A lot of it was I realized how many fears I had bundled with making content. It was like fear of judgment, me wanting to people please and feeling like I was going to make content that wouldn't please people that loved me or liked me.

12:07>> It was fear of being on camera. It was fear of like people talking about how I looked. It was there were so many fears that were bundled up under the making content fear that I was like, I have to do it because like I'm fed up with myself for not doing it and I don't feel like I can lead this team if I can't even get in front of a camera and make content. And so when I did it, it was really like I just want to overcome these fears. I don't want this fear to own me anymore. And then as I started doing it, I was like, I really just want to make content so that people don't feel alone like I felt this entire time making this business. Like especially when I first started in business and I first started like in my career and in college, it's like I remember when Twitter came out and when Instagram first started and like

12:48>> before that there was nobody like judging you. There was none of this you didn't have this perception of how things should be. And as soon as it started, >> I started getting so much more anxiety because it was like, "Oh, I should have a Lamborghini and I should be able to be in a bikini year round. I should be." And I felt like these very constrictive expectations started getting put on all of us. >> Absolutely. And it's on a subconscious level, too. >> 100%. And in building the business and trying to also have a great marriage and have great friendships and have family, I was like, I can't do it all. And it doesn't look like these pictures I'm seeing.

13:20>> No. >> No. It's like a And so I remember this. I had looked up to a certain person on social media for a very long time. >> And they made everything look like it was perfect. And so I constantly felt like I wasn't living up to the expectation what a great CEO looked like because I saw how she ran things and it seemed like it was very perfect. Eventually time goes on long enough I meet this person. We become friends. What do I learn? [ __ ] [ __ ] show. And I was like girl why don't you share any of that? I would have felt so much less miserable just having known that this was normal. She was like, "Well, Ila, that's not what people aspire to. And people aren't going to be aspired to be like me if they think that I have all these flaws."

13:57>> And I remember right then I was like, "I never want to inspire people if they think that I'm not flawed." Like that feels like a lie. It feels deceitful. >> And so that was when I said like, I want to make content that makes the journey less painful than the journey that I had to take. Whatever that looks like. If it's personal, relationships, business, like I just want them to have a little less pain than I had. And if so, then like it makes doing this worth it. And that's really what I've anchored to with the personal brand. That combined with, you know, what I tell my team is like I just want it to be a reflection of me.

14:26And if I'm weird or quirky or flawed in this way, then great. It it can be in the content. And like if people are like, well, it'd be nice if you were a little more balanced and you did some well, I don't I don't paint and I don't do art. I'm just doing business and with my husband and I'm baking and walking. Like that's it, right? And that's okay. >> I love it. I probably have not been concise enough about the personal brand piece because I don't think about it a ton, but that's why I started doing in the first place.

14:50>> But I'm so glad you did because there are millions of people like me who have been inspired and influenced by you and coming as someone who I remember buying a camera in sophomore year in college and I lied to everyone saying, "Oh, this is a great photo camera." No, I wanted to vlog and I was scared to vlog it. Only like two years after it did I start my entire YouTube journey and I would say everything you want comes on the other side of cringe. I was so cringe.

15:21Cringe. >> I love that. >> It's so cringe. I look at my old videos. I'm like Zoe, you don't speak like that. Why do you have the YouTuber voice? But it's like a slow evolution of finding out who I am and being able to like present myself as I am. >> How old were you when you started vlogging? >> 21, I think. >> Yeah, that's hard. I mean, these Tik Tockers are starting at I don't know, 11 or something. >> I know. And I know it scares me. People immediately reward you for something and then it's like you just start doing it.

15:50>> Yeah. >> It's really cool though that you found your voice through the process because I think that's like a lot of people don't ever. So, you're already ahead. >> Always inspired by you though, the pure honesty. I don't think it takes any aspirational factors away from an audience point of view. So, keep doing you. But being a public persona on the internet comes with many pros and also many ugly cons where people often make assumptions about you. So what is like one of the biggest misconception about you on the internet?

16:19>> I don't know what the biggest would be versus one that bugs me the most which Alex knows which is that I'm not actually the CEO of the company. In fact, very often people will say, "Oh, Alex is the CEO." And it's like it's funny and and him and I have had this conversation where I get offended when people say I'm not the CEO because I bore my heart into this role and absolutely >> I try so hard you know cuz in our last company we were co-CEOs in in gym launch and when we started acquisition.com like we're both like it makes more sense for you to be CEO like it just like it's naturally what I like what I'm good at like it it just made sense and he was going to focus more on marketing and higher level strategy. I think having people discredit that and say like you wrote his coattails, you this and that when like we met when we like neither of us had anything like it just

17:05>> that probably got to me more than anything because of how hard I try and I think that controlled me for longer than I would have liked to admit that it did because you know I don't speak much about like being a woman in business and all these things but like when you go to a charity event and your company that you know you engaged with the company me engaged with the company to give all these proceeds and then they acknowledge Alex and not me when I'm the one who did it. And it just like there's just things that happen where you're like that sucks. And I think going online that gets exacerbated because if you wear makeup, if you like fashion, if you are in shape, people make assumptions about you as a woman. And it's like, oh no, I would assume that a woman who's really a CEO, she wouldn't be taking time to do that. She'd be, you know, ugly and like not in shape. Like, you know what I mean?

17:48>> I know these are not mutually exclusive. Like, you could be pretty and be very smart and intelligent and driven. The only limit is your imagination. a thousand percent. And so I think >> for me I'm like that was probably the hardest thing going into it. I would say the second is that people just tore me apart from my voice which it's so weird. I never thought my voice was like raspy and low. And then when I got on YouTube and people were like, "Oh my gosh, are you on steroids? Did you just be a guy?

18:15Do you smoke?" And I was like, "What?" And I was like, "Man, I knew my voice was always a little raspy, but damn." >> I think it's a very attractive low range. >> Thanks. I should try singing. Um, but I think those were the two things. The the voice one was just unexpected. So I was like, how do I respond to this? I just didn't know. And then with the piece with the CEO, that one was just it pointed to me where I had work to be done, which is like it took me a while to realize like I enjoy having the responsibility more than taking the credit.

18:42>> And that in itself is enough of a reward that if people choose to think that I don't actually do what I do, I no longer seek to change their mind. >> And yeah, it's not your job to change their mind. So, it's more freeing that way. >> Yeah. It's been way more freeing, I think, because I think I also in the beginning wanted to be perceived in a certain way because I was afraid that people would say that they would try and discredit me. >> So, I hid parts of myself that I think if I had shown earlier on, I don't know how it would have been, but it might have been easier or at least more enjoyable.

19:13>> Which parts of yourself? >> Like I, you know, it's interesting. I was with my team the other day and they were like, "We had no idea that you were funny." And like I would always hide my humor or like the faces I would make or like the I do like little voices and like I I'm kind of weird. Like and Alex would all the time be like, "Teach, you're so [ __ ] weird." Like I just do weird and like I get it. My dad's that way. My cousins are that way. Like this whole side of my family, we're all like that. And I hit it because I was like, "Oh, people won't take me seriously. They definitely won't think I'm actually running the company if I make weird faces or do little voices or do little mannerisms." And I was like, "Oh, but I hate how I look. Like that's not me."

19:47like I'm not this rigid constrained like that's not who I am. I'm actually like a very vibrant energetic funny but can be serious but can be this person. And so after I realized that no matter what when you make content, right? Either I make content where I don't like who I am but other people like who I am >> or I make content where I like who I am and maybe they don't like who I am. And I just made a decision. I was like, I will make content where I like who I am and if people like it or don't like it, I don't care. That's not my business.

20:15It's their business. And as soon as I made that decision, it was like it just unlocked a different dynamic for me with making the content where I just felt like it wasn't any pressure anymore. It was just like be yourself and don't worry about the perceptions of other people because they're going to make them either way. >> That's true. >> At least in one of the situations, I actually like who I am, right? Have you gone through that? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And I realized that especially since in the beginning I made a lot of fitness content about my own personal glowup journey, internal and external. And I realized, oh wow, there's no right way to be right.

20:49There's no right way to live or exist on the internet where to some people I'm way too skinny and other people are like, your face is fat, blah blah blah is fat. And I'm like, well, I'm going to be the wrong person for everybody, so might as well just exist as how I want to be. >> Oh, it's 100% true. It's so funny when it's like that's people like, you should lose weight, and they're like, you're too skinny. Like >> it's like I've been accused of promoting ED by being in shape and then I've also been accused of why is your face still so fat? Like you didn't lose the weight and I'm like okay just

21:21>> did you get lipo suction my whole body? >> Yeah, exactly. >> The assumptions people make are actually quite funny sometimes. >> It is really funny. On the topic of confidence though, yeah, you always struck me as someone extremely confident, which is why I really appreciate your honesty about the dramatic transformation you had both internally and externally where you built up your confidence literally from scratch, from the grounds up. And I really love your frame of mind where confidence comes from competence and competence comes from repetition and action. How do you balance action with thinking? I think you have to know what end of the spectrum that you sit on.

22:02>> For me, I tend to overthink more. So, most of the time, probably already done enough thinking. >> Like most of the time, >> that's good self-awareness. >> Yeah. And the second thing I ask myself is like when I find myself in my head about something, should I take action or should I not? >> I then ask myself in which scenario am I going to learn more? >> Thinking about it more or testing something? And so most of the time the answer is like if you just try something you're gonna learn more than you would just thinking about it in your head.

22:30>> That's so fair. >> I give myself a lot of what I call like tests in my personal life, in my business life. I'm like I'm just going to test this for like a week or so just to see if it'll how it'll do for me, right? >> That has helped me a ton being somebody who tends to be more in my head. I think that the other side is people who just like take impulsive action and that usually I would say if you're not sure if you're the type of person who does that, you take action the moment you feel an emotion run through your body. M. >> And so they're very emotionally driven.

22:56I call it compulsive where it's like the moment they feel an emotion, they take an action based on it, which can seem like, oh, they're an action taker, but sometimes they're just a wrecking ball. >> That's true. >> Yeah. And so it's like I think you have one side or the other. I tend to overthink. So for me, it's like I tend to try and default myself to action >> because it's very unlikely that I haven't thought something through. And I think it's also a question of like ask yourself like does thinking make it better? Uh-huh.

23:21>> And I think another question I ask myself is like, am I even qualified to think about this problem? >> Oh, interesting. >> So, if you're struggling with something, but you have no experience with it, you have no expertise around it, you have not studied it, do you even have the qualifications to make the decision? >> Mhm. >> So then I'm like, oh no, I have no qualifications to think about this. I should not research this in my own mind. Therefore, I should just take action, consult with other people, and almost like outsource it. Like maybe it means I'm going to consult an expert. Maybe it means I'm just going to do the test. But I just don't allow myself to keep indulging in it because I'm like, "Oh, you just don't know."

23:53>> Like somebody else has 20 years of experience figuring this thing out. Listen to what they're going to say and maybe you should just test it. And that helps me a lot with a lot of things. I mean, even with learning how to take action, you know what I mean? Like the first few times like understanding exposure therapy and how to face your fears and all these things. Like it's not like I was like I thought myself into that. I researched found like the most evidence around exposure therapy that when in relation to things that you're scared of and then I said I'm just going to try it. I'm going to try this with my fear of making content. I'm going to try it with my fear of doing whatever, right? Whatever it might be. I didn't say like, oh, I should just think about it more.

24:30>> I haven't studied this. I don't know anything about this. So, I think that can help if you use those two frames. >> Very strategic. When it comes to taking risks though, what's the most lifealtering risk that you've taken thus far? >> I think deciding to move to California right after I graduated college, >> not even after I didn't even stay. You know, I think the reason it was so like life-changing for me was the environment I'd been in was the reality I wanted for myself didn't exist in that environment.

24:57Like there was none of this. There was also none of this. Like where I grew up, it was just very you grow up, you become a nurse or a lawyer or you work at the store or you waiter or you and it was just like the opportunities were very small. And it was very difficult for me to think big in that environment because big thinking in that environment was not what I wanted for my future. >> And so when I moved to California, my reality of what's possible for somebody, it just completely expanded overnight.

25:25And then it was very scary at first. It's like, oh my gosh, what I thought was big is not even close to big. like listening to these people and what their lives they live and how much money they make and their everything they get to do in the world like this is crazy but after the initial shock of it wore off I was like this is so exciting because there's so many options for life >> and I don't think that if I had stayed I would have had the same trajectory I think I probably would have done something much less risky because I think taking that risk then reinforced risk takingaking

25:52>> so then I was able to take more risks I saw that one paid off >> the reward loop kept on going >> exactly but it started there. And the thing is is that nobody thought that it was a good idea for me to leave. Not my parents. >> Interesting. >> Not even my friends, not my family, nobody. Cuz they're like, "What are you going to do? You don't know anybody?" Like all these things. And that was very hard for me when not even my best friends. I mean, you know, a lot of people still have friends from college that they talk to, but like my friends weren't happy for me. I'm sure some of them still watch my content, so it's tough to say, but like I could feel that they weren't happy for me wanting to expand my life and the vision for myself. And so it wasn't just like getting out of the environment for the opportunity, but also for the things that were confining me, the people who wanted me to stay in my bubble, stay in my box, and be the person I'd been. I felt like I unchained myself from my past in one fail swoop by just getting out of there.

26:40>> Wow. There's this quote about fear that you have that fundamentally changed my life. >> Did it? >> Yeah. That fear is a mile wide and an inch deep. I cannot tell you how much it has impacted me in areas like love and career. And I share that quote all the time with people who are closest to me and in my content. And I'm sure the ripple effect of that wisdom and inspiration just goes beyond both of our imaginations. So first of all, thank you so much for sharing that. Such a gift truly. And I'm also wondering as someone who has overcome so much fear, if fear does not exist right now, what would you be doing?

27:25>> It's been a little different for me because I had a weird quarter where I had some health setbacks. I had to have surgery >> and I had a really long time to get perspective on things. So, I actually feel like the biggest perspective I had was that I got to step back and see what things I was still scared of. And now I started tackling those things and just leaning into them. I don't know if I would do anything different right now because the different just occurred with bringing on a partner in my business.

27:52Like that was very scary for me. >> It was something that a lot of people were like don't do that, you know? And then it's been like the best decision ever. Right now we're looking at moving from the house we're in to a different house and it's like a scary thing cuz it's a very different lifestyle change but like it feels right to me. It's something I want I've wanted to do for a few years and like now I'm doing it. You know, I've said that I was going to write a book for a long time, but the books that people and publishers wanted me to write were not the books I wanted to write. And so, I started writing a book when I was recovering. And

28:18>> you did? Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I'll be like one of the first people to pre-order. >> I am not telling anybody what it's about yet cuz it's probably not what people would expect. So, we'll see. But, I started doing a lot of those things recently because I think I got the space from myself to see where I was still holding myself back. Even in part of that was I would say a fear around expectations. I don't know if my brand within my company or my brand for myself or my brand publicly but like I work hard that almost got reinforced a little too much for like a year or so where I felt like as I had more people in the company and there was more I was like I just need to keep working harder and harder and I realized at one point right before I had all this stuff happen to my health I was like this isn't right anymore. At that point, I'd had more employees than we'd had at acquisition.

29:03And I was like, I don't need to be doing this anymore. But I was scared of what the company would think. I was talking with one of my CEO coaches, and I was like, I'm just scared of what people will think if I'm not there every day at 4 a.m. anymore. >> And he was like, but you can't be because your judgment is now more important than your work ethic. And but it was scary for me to let go and say like I'm not going to be there every day at 4 a.m. anymore because me actually, you know, getting more sleep to make a good decision is more important now for the company because turning the Titanic is harder to turn than a rowboat. And so if you make the wrong call, you have to sway the other direction. You might hit an iceberg. And so I think a lot of it what I've noticed for me just continues to be releasing myself of the fear of what other people will think. And I actually think for me, I'm more scared of what my company will think of me than people on YouTube, which is weird, but they know me. Yeah.

29:48>> And so that's something I have to continuously work on. And I think I have to work on not being apologetic for some of the things I have to do for myself. Especially after dealing with all this health stuff. I was like, life's too short. Like I definitely have swung into that. >> But I'm like, okay, how do I keep on that track? Because I think my fears revolve way more around just letting people down than anything. Like those were the majority of the things I'm scared of is letting people down, not living up to their standards, not being good enough. Those are probably the things. And usually I'm fearful that I'm going to ask people to come work for me, move across the country, change their whole life, and then they're going to be disappointed about who they work for.

30:26>> So it's a big change. And like we have a really smart team. We have really talented people. So I take it seriously. I like I feel the burden of that responsibility. >> And I love what I do. So it makes it doubly hard when you have to make decisions like somebody does in mine where maybe you have to let people go or maybe you have to change a department, maybe you've got to like I feel it. So, I still make the decisions, >> but I I feel them. So, I think a lot of my fear revolves around that still. I'm not perfect. I still got plenty. But recently, that's the one I noticed the most is just like nobody's going to advocate for me more than myself.

30:55>> That is so true. >> And nobody's going to determine what's most important for me to do except myself. >> So, I have to tell everybody else where I am best used, where my time is best spent. And I cannot let other people's desires or opinions affect that because I actually do feel really confident in knowing what I best am used for in my own company. I just don't like letting people down. That's all.

31:18>> A I think it just shows how much you care as a leader and you come across to me as someone who deeply like truly pour her heart out to her team and tries to support everyone to the extent where you put everybody before yourself. And I'm wondering, are you a good supporter or a friend to yourself at the moment?

31:42>> I think at the moment, yes. I think that I sway easily. I have a hard time achieving balance with it. >> Yeah. >> Because I'll feel really good. And because I feel really good and I like myself and I feel good about myself, I feel like I can pour a lot into other people because I'm like, I've taken care of myself. I take care of my health, my relationships, all this. >> But then I get hooked on it. >> And sometimes people take advantage of it. being really honest. I've been told this by my executives. They're like, "People take advantage of the fact that you will help them so much

32:09>> and then I'll start realizing, oh my gosh, I've been spending hours and hours each week with these two people and then I'm like, "Oh man, that doesn't feel good to me." >> Um, and I don't like it. I don't feel good after those interactions. So, it's probably where I struggle the most because I do care a lot. I wish I could care less, but like I got all the [ __ ] to give. Like, Alex do like I I have no left. I was like, "I have so many fucks." like I have all the in the world and I think it's just I really like people you know like that was something that I don't think early in my life like my household I grew up in was very lonely there was not a lot of people there was not a lot of community there was not a lot of warmth and I think I like having that along with a competitive spirit in the workplace and so I think I rely on a lot of people around me to help me balance it

32:53>> because it's definitely a blind spot like I would absolutely say it's a blind spot as the CEO of a company and like the person I am I still get taken advantage of by people that I just don't see it and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they're totally milking. They're like milking my my love tank." >> Like just they're like, "I'm going to suck it all out of you." And I'm like, "No, I have like hundreds of people, but it's like one person will just, you know, and so I've gotten better at catching it. I had two times this year where I parted ways with people that were on my team because I just saw that they just couldn't function without just more of me pouring into them like that.

33:23It didn't feel healthy." So, I was like, "This isn't working." It's definitely my biggest flaw as a leader, I think. >> Interesting. That's also extremely great self-awareness that you have this blind spot rather than it being an unknown unknown. >> I guess that's fair. It's embarrassing, but >> I don't think it's embarrassing. I think it's very brave to admit that and to work on it. >> I'm trying. I rely on people like Marissa to tell me. >> I love that. With the rise of self-worth comes with the rise of standards. And as someone who has high standards, how do you prevent it from pushing towards the spectrum of rigidity? I think the easiest hack is that you have to marry somebody like my husband

34:02>> because I joke I'm like if I wasn't married to Alex I would be like a rigid psychopath. >> Really? >> Yeah. Cuz like think about like this, right? So like example like I love a clean organized house, right? >> Yes. >> Everything's clean, organized, whatever. He comes home, wears his shoes in the house, dirt. I'm like, you know, he just shook I don't like I'm not like a I sanitize my hands. I don't want to get sick. Whatever. He shakes five people's hands, touches my face. Like it's constant exposure therapy being married to that guy. I'm like, "Oh, I have an organized month. We're doing this and that." And then he's like, "Three trips, we got to go." I'm like, "Oh." Like, but I actually love it because I actually mean this when I say like, "Find somebody like that." Like, I have always had very close friends who are like that

34:43>> because I think it makes me a more flexible person to surround myself with people who are more spontaneous, who are a little more chaotic. Like, they're too flexible. Like Alex doesn't want anything on his calendar. He feels uncomfortable with stuff on his calendar. I feel uncomfortable without things on my calendar. I'm like, "What do you mean it's not on my calendar? Like I don't understand." >> I joked with him. I was like, "All my best friends growing up were like you. They were like the chaotic, the creative, and I was like the organized, like do things like this. Like we have order and structure."

35:10>> Yeah. >> And so I actually feel like it's been a huge gift to me to be married to him because I have gotten to observe all the pieces of him that I want for myself. >> And I always say like you can like take the little sprinkles from somebody. It's like there's the cupcake and then there's like the sprinkles. It's like let's just take the sprinkles. >> It's like his sprinkles of like acceptance, being able to be flexible. He's so good at that. And I admire it a lot. And so I've learned a lot from him and I think it's made me being married to him and being close and having a couple friends who are like that as well. It's made me better because you can't maintain certain relationships with that utter rigidity. And I couldn't maintain it like we would not be able to be married if I was just a completely rigid person. And so it almost forces me to remain flexible, which I like

35:53>> because I think that I'm happier that way because I think everyone can go to the extreme, right? With working out, it's like five more reps, then 10 more, then this. It's like with organization, it's like first I schedule my, you know, meetings and then when I shower and then when I work out, then my friend, it's like you can take everything to the extreme with anything. And so I think having people around you that compliment you and remind you that this matter anyways, right? Um it can be really really helpful. half joking, but not like in the moments where I'm feeling really stressed about something and something's really eating me up. I just have him to be there and be like, "You're gonna die and it doesn't matter.

36:27Nobody will remember you." And I'm like, "What a relief." >> Yeah. And I'm like, "You're right. I'm a speck on this galaxy." And it is actually really helpful, I think, for anybody who feels like they have very high standards and they are very rigid. Surrounding yourself with people who just like are good at having fun, >> it's really helpful. >> I love that. I'm also very like taipe and anal about a lot of things which is why I really appreciate it when my best friend is like Zoe chill like it doesn't matter and I'm like actually you're right and to have more I wouldn't even say type B but people who have different styles and ways of life is a breath of fresh air

37:07>> it is because you also realize like and it works for them and their life works and they like it. People are always like let me tell you how I do it. It's like you just got to find what works for you, you know, and take the pieces you like of other people. >> That's so true. I want to talk about love. >> Love in terms of romantic relationship. >> Yeah. >> Love for business, love as a leader, love for oneself. And to start off with romantic relationships, you said, quote, "Nothing will impact your life more than who you marry." And you've been married for eight years. Congrats.

37:39>> But it wasn't always easy for you. as I also read that you spent three years reading books on relationships because you were quote unquote bad at it, which is also so relatable except after years of reading about relationships, I'm still single. >> It's common. >> It's common. I feel it. Yes. >> So, a lot of young women these days, I feel like they're optimizing for the wrong traits when looking for a romantic partner, including myself sometimes. And I'm very curious, what about Alex's profile on Bumble stood out to you when you first swiped, right? And what really stood out to you in your first interaction with him?

38:19>> When I swiped, it was because he had business fitness. And then he said something like bourbon. And I was like, okay, he still has fun. I think it was like owned three businesses. I was like, oh, so he's in business. >> Um, love to lift. It's like great. I love to lift. >> Yeah. >> And then, you know, something bourbon. And I was like, stakes and bourbon or something. was like, "Oh, so he still like has fun. He's not going to be like at the restaurant like counting his calories um >> with a scale." >> Oh, I had just gone on a date like that. So, yeah.

38:47>> Oh, wow. >> I came from the fitness background, right? So, I saw that and I really was like, "Oh, that's cool." Like, we actually have the three big buckets kind of in common. Like, I love fitness. >> I'm all about learning business and I have my book of business and I still have a life. Like, I still like to go out. I still like to shop. I still like to like go to the beach. like I'm not just like in the gym all day and in the kitchen. >> And that really appealed to me. So that's why I swiped. When I met him, I just loved how unapologetically himself he was.

39:16>> And it was clear he wasn't trying to impress me. He was just trying to be himself to see if I liked it or not. And I was so used to people like trying to put on a show, trying to impress me, trying to do things that they thought that I would like so that I would like them back. And it was just very refreshing and real to have somebody finally just be like, "This is who I am. We don't need to go on like a fancy date." Like I don't like fancy dates. I like royo and I like cooking at my house and barbecuing and going to the pool and the lake and like there was no facade.

39:43>> And I think that was the first thing. I think the second thing was it was like what are you interested in? What am I interested in? Let's just talk about what we're interested in and we don't need to like talk about certain things because it's the first date. I think a lot of people put a set of rules on what a date should look like, what a relationship should look like, what what should you talk about, what should we do when we're together? And it's like all of those things like you can make up your own rules for your own relationship. And absolutely where both of us were at in life at that point was I was all about my business. I am trying to make a name for myself in this industry, learn like all day, every day, Saturday, Sunday, all I'm doing is like making myself better, taking all my money, paying people for events, mentor, whatever it might be. and he was the same way. And so we talked a lot about business. And it felt good to not be judged by somebody for wanting to talk about the thing that I spent all my time on because a lot of people I'd been on dates with prior, you know, they were like, well, they wanted to talk about, I don't know, just like other people, trending events, like football. I'm like, like I'm just not interested. I just wasn't interested. And so it felt really good to talk to somebody who had similar interests but also didn't see the need for these rigid rules around what a relationship looks like and what we're supposed to do on a date.

40:56>> And I also see that like from the get- go, your value of honesty, what you value most has been reflected in this person, in this potential >> Yeah. >> partner. So, >> and the thing is is like I think it's gotten way worse because when I'd be swiping, I never thought anybody looked perfect. >> I just was like, I'm just going to meet them. Do they seem worth meeting was what I would ask myself. Like do they seem like worth meeting? And at worst I have dinner with somebody and learn how to tolerate strangers. Like that's how I actually viewed it. I'm like I will become a better person through learning these interactions.

41:26>> Absolutely. >> Um when I met Alex like I never once was like oh he's perfect. >> Oh he's the perfect guy for me. He's un like I was like oh there's a lot of flaws. There's a lot of but I also have a lot of and I think the only thing I see now is just there's this illusion that there is somebody that's perfect out there. And so because of that, people just keep swiping >> because they're like, "Oh, even though they're 70% of what I want and look for, what if I find somebody with 80?" And so it's like this illusion of optionality keeps people not committed to any one person. I truly believe that you can make it work with anybody.

41:59>> Like actually, like if you put me on a deserted island with any human, I think that we could figure out a way to make it work. I mean, arranged marriages have more success than people who choose their own partner. Why is that? Right? It's like rooted in logic. And it's like if you do these things like it sounds so bad to say but it's like if you act in a certain way if you behave a certain way you act yourself into love. >> And so as soon as I understood that too I think once I found somebody who had the fundamental values that I had we also had a shared family history who both families from the same countries like it was like oh this is the person I want to do this with

42:31>> because I think that there's enough of a foundation that we can put in the work to get the rest to 100. >> Love it. And what does love mean to you? You know how much you love somebody by how much you're willing to give up to be in a relationship with them. So, how much are you willing to sacrifice to keep the relationship, whatever that is, is how much you love them. >> Will you give up where you live? Will you give up friends? Will you give up a job? The more that you will give up, I think that means the more you love the person. If you notice, it's an action, not a word. I don't know how you would describe love. I just know what it would look like. I think about that because how do you know how much I love my work?

43:04Well, how much do I give up for it? I was going to ask you like how similar is it between your love for Alex and your love for business or if it's very different or similar? >> Different in the sense of like I think what I do in business feels like an expression of myself. Like it is my life's work. It's not a job. It's what I want to do. I don't do it because I have to. I do it because I actually love doing it. And I love doing it because it makes me better. >> Uhhuh.

43:30>> That feels different because it's more of an expression of me. Mhm. >> But I think the principle still applies, which is how much would I give up for it, right? And I think like I've given up a lot for my business. I give up a lot for Alex. >> Mhm. >> And he does the same for me and the business does the same for me. But when I think about it, it's like, well, how much do I love it? It's like, well, how much have you given up? And I see people who won't even move to a different city for somebody and I'm like, well, you don't love them that much. They're like, no, I do. I'm like, no, I don't think so. Like, it's not offensive. It's just like, I don't think so. You won't even inconvenience yourself to move to a different apartment. Feels weird, you know.

44:06>> That's so true. What are some of the sacrifices you made either for your business or for Alex that not many people know of? >> I think on a continuous basis in order for me to have the business I have and have the relationship I have, I give up hobbies. >> I have lots of things I like to do that I would like to do that aren't work and aren't being married. In order to have a really good relationship and in order to have a really great business, it's really tough to also have a hobby that takes 90 minutes a day. I was actually did yoga and Pilates for like seven years. And so I was like into doing the instruction and all this and I I stopped, you know, I used to this is so lame. I used to go volunteer at the animal shelters up until I met Alex and started the business and I would go and like we'd bring in like the dogs that were from like hoarders houses and stuff and like retrain them and like I gave it up because it would take like two hours a couple days a week. Um, so a lot of hobbies and I would say that, you know, for Alex, for example, gave up a lot of friends that were men because I looked at it as when you get married, if it feels anywhat like that person has any sort of feelings towards you, it feels disrespectful to be friends with them now that I'm married. So, I gave up a lot of guy friends

45:20>> when I met Alex and got married and I continue to, you know, I think in a way that actually disadvantages me. I don't even know that's a word in business >> because I will not reach out to men that might be comparable in my position because if they're single I don't want them to my phone number. I don't want them because I've had instances where they did try and hit on me even though they know I'm married and they know Alex. So like in a way to maintain the marriage I do sacrifice some of my success in business because I want the marriage to remain peaceful and comfortable. I don't want to make him uncomfortable or myself. At times I give up things in my marriage for the business because maybe I'm taking on a huge project. I'm changing a lot in the business and I'm like I just don't have a lot to give at the end of the day. And instead of spending time with Alex going out to dinner on a Wednesday night, I'm like I just want to be alone

46:09>> because like I just need to recharge. And I think that the two depending on the season kind of switch off. I look at it over the long haul. So I have these two things right that I love a lot in life. I would say there's many other things bundled in there, but like when you look at somebody who has kids, they have a family, they have friends, they have work, they have husband, the more things you have that you love, the more sacrifices you have to make, right? They're just micro sacrifices. And you're never going to have two things that you love that don't at some point make you sacrifice one for the other.

46:36>> I think that's just unrealistic. Even when I work in the business with my spouse, I still have to sometimes make sacrifices that will take from one or the other relationship. >> That's so true. I have a lot of respect for the amount of care you put into making sure that your husband is respected. And also focus is saying no to the things you like so you can say yes to the things you love. >> Yeah. >> So, what's the hardest no you've ever had to say in life?

47:02>> I have had a lot of opportunities to do a lot of really fun stuff that would probably propel more notoriety or fame forward. >> Gotten invited to a lot of really cool events. got asked to do a lot of really cool things. Got asked to be like seen with a lot of really famous people >> and I say no to it because it wouldn't make my business or my marriage better. You know, being away from my business, not helping my team grow, not investing in them, being away from my husband, not going to things together, doing things separately. So, I tend to say no to those things. And that probably means that I might have less people than I can relate to. For me, it's very hard, but it's a season. You know, I've been doing business for 10 years. backlist.com is not quite four years old until a business is around like between year five and six. Like that's when I really get a ton of leverage because I'll have the full suite in place.

47:52>> Right now it's like I'm still putting a lot of the puzzle pieces together. And so for me to be like I'm going to take a week and go to fashion week and then I'm going to take a week here and go to Monaco with this retreat with these like famous women. That sounds so fun. >> Yeah. >> And it also probably like build my brand quickly. But I've made a commitment. I started this business. I had people move out here. I have built a headquarters. I just bought a second office. Like that's huge >> and it's a baby and it requires a lot more mothering until it gets to a certain point where then I have other people that can help. So I think if the business were a little bit more mature, I would probably say yes to some more of those things.

48:25>> But it kills me when I have, you know, friends that have had businesses for 15 years going to these things, inviting me. It's just more of the fun stuff. I don't take advantage of a lot of the benefits that come from the things I do because I just one I believe that they'll be there when I'm ready. >> Absolutely. and things are more in place. But I just think yeah, timing. It's like I think a lot of people think you know you build this great business and you're like now I'm on the beach. It's like well you don't necessarily do both at the same time and you get there but not in year four.

48:54>> So I think that's probably the hardest stuff for me to say no to. I am very good at saying I just say it immediately. I'm like no can't do it. I actually don't even think about it because I'm like if I have that twinge of a hesitation I'm like can't do that. And I think it's really hard to for people to conceptualize like oh do you just not like having fun? And I'm like, "No, of course I like having fun, but I made this commitment to myself and to all these people who have now put their lives in my hands, for me to make these decisions to drive us forward. And if I spend a week here and a week there and a week there and a week here, and like I'm distracted by all this fun and glamour of rich and famous, which a lot of people like, then I'm not focused on what I need to do to grow this business." So, I had the allure just like anybody else. I think I'm just so quick to say no. It sucks sometimes because you're like, "That sounds so fun." Mhm.

49:37>> Um but I also am like in due time. >> Absolutely. I think it just shows character and it shows how committed you are to what you value in terms of growth and in terms of taking care of the team and making sure that there is sustainable and healthy growth over there. >> Yeah. And on the topic of commitment, I'm very curious at a time when all the data pointed to somewhat of a decline when it comes to your partner Alex when he was quote unquote a sinking ship as he said himself. He got a DUI. He lost all the money. You guys didn't really have a place to stay where you had to go back to your parents and he had the courage to ask you if you wanted to get out. What was it that made you decide to stay? I don't think you deserve to be with somebody in their best moments if you're not there with them in their worst. And I would like somebody who's there with me in my worst moments. And so you get what you put out. I want a husband and a partner who will be with me when I'm in the worst of times. And I think in order to get that person, you give that to them. And I just believe in that like very thoroughly. And I think of it with all my relationships. Like I'll be with you in the one day when I'm there, I expect you to be there with me.

50:48And I think loyalty is very important to me. So, I think I'm very loyal to people because I would like it as well. I have a thorough belief that you can make anything work. You can make any friendship work. You can make any relationship work if you just put in the work. And so, when that was happening, I was like, I haven't seen him at his best yet, but I see the potential. I see the the flicker of what that looks like. And I don't think that I deserve to be that person with him there if I can't be with him here. And I also don't want somebody with me who can't be with me in that position. So, I think it's just be the person you want to be with for whatever it is. You know, I don't know if it would be this way if that hadn't occurred or if it would have always been this way, but Alex has never ever once even come close to cheating or being unfaithful. He is such a loyal husband.

51:31It's insane given his I mean, he's very good-looking. He's got money, success, like all these things. It's not like he doesn't have girls like hit on him. Like, part of me just believes that that's because that's how I am to him and we're just very loyal to each other. And I think that was probably the moment that ignited that between us because I think he realized like she's ride or die. I remember being in relationships where I had to wonder if they would be loyal to me, if they were going to cheat on me, or if they would leave me if something happened.

51:57>> It would be really hard to be married to somebody. If you're having to think about that, it's not even a question with Alex. And it's not that I don't think that he could. Like I think there's always an alternative reality where it's like you could leave and be like off. It's like I don't think he'd want to. Even in the last like 6 months, I went through a lot personally. And it was really hard for him as well, having to like be married to somebody who's dealing with all this health stuff and in pain all the time and not fun to be around. Not going out to dinner, not doing fun stuff, not traveling, like that's not fun. It was pretty miserable.

52:25And he just stood tall and just sat with me in the just told me it was okay and just loved me even though it sucked. And I think everybody wants that in somebody because it sucks to do that alone and to go through that alone. though I don't know I'm emotional but >> it's just recent and I think he should get more credit for that because he's a very good husband like it's kind of funny how like what people see on social media versus like he is so attuned with me and he does so much to make me better and to help me and to support me. He's my biggest fan and it's like he only speaks life into me but people don't see that you know

52:59>> I'm so touched. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm about to tear up, too, because I could tell how genuine the love is, and it's just so beautiful when two people pour into each other's growth and want nothing but the best for each other. I can't speak for Alex, but I do believe that he appreciates the same about you as well. Your kindness and your pure heart just attracted someone who could match you at that level. So, thanks.

53:26>> What a beautiful what a beautiful relationship. So, thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, of course. I didn't know it was going to happen. So, >> on that topic, what's the most grateful thing you feel about in life right now? >> I feel really grateful for the amount of people that have my back and have my best interest in mind. I think that the position I'm in, like there's a lot of people that could be not wanting what's best for me, not really wanting to help me, not looking out for my best interest. And I think like I feel really grateful that I have like really good friends, really great people on my team and really great family that's all genuinely really have my back. I don't know why, but like it feels like more than ever before.

54:06>> I feel that responsibility to like reciprocate that. But I also just feel really really grateful for it because you know over the last six months I was really transparent with my company about what was going on with me and like I just saw nothing but people just like having my back and even just like people holding things in for months that they didn't want to talk to me about or tell me because they just wanted me to have my space and like they were like I can wait a few months to deal with these things or whatever. And it was just like a lot of grace was shown and I just really appreciate that and how much support I was able to get throughout the entire process whereas I think things are much harder when you have to go through them all alone. Absolutely. It sounds like true wealth to me to have people who are with you at your highest and lowest and support you through and through and to build something incredible together.

54:50>> Yeah. I think it's not even just about what you do, but who you do it with. I think I realized early in my career that you can build something with people that you are good with, but you can build so much with people that you like genuinely love working with. Like you can build big [ __ ] with people that you really like being around and that's what makes it fun and that's what keeps you in the game. It's really easy to quit when it's just you. >> Yeah. >> But if you have people around you and you're counting on them and they're counting on you, it makes it really hard to quit. Which I think part of success in any arena is not just how to be successful, but how to make it hard to quit.

55:22>> I mean, like me and Alex talk about this. We're like, it'd be really hard for us to get divorced. Like think about how much [ __ ] relies on the two of us. But we talked about that when we got married. We're like the more intertwined we are, the more likely we are to stick through it if things are tough and the more likely we are to build a resilient relationship. Like it's same with friendships, you know what I mean? Or even like I have friends and family in the company. It makes it really hard to get rid of that. That's a hack that a lot of people don't think about. It's like make it harder to split or harder to quit than to stay. I'm just really grateful for the people that I have right now and I think engineering an environment like that it would just be helpful for anybody to achieve any goal.

55:57For example, if if you start going to the gym, right? And then you paying a lot every month and then maybe you start working there part-time. So then when you want to quit working out, you're like, "But I work there and I pay a lot of money every month and all my friends are at the gym. It's going to be really hard to quit the gym." >> I think that's been a big hack for me with a lot of stuff. It's like I'm not smarter or have more willpower. I just make it harder to quit. It's like move across the country. It's like well it's pretty hard to move back.

56:22>> That's so true. Also, you are a master at emotional regulation where one of my favorite quotes from you is like your mood, follow the plan. How do you get good at feeling bad? >> The only way that I know to get good at feeling bad is to feel really really bad and realize that nothing happens except for a feeling. It's like a very surreal experience, but you know, I used to have panic attacks when I was younger. And I remember I had one after not having one for a few years, and then I was really nervous. I was like, "Oh my god, I'm so scared. What if I start getting them again? Like what if they come back? Like what? And I was like, "Oh gosh, me being scared of it is making it worse. It's making it a bigger problem than it needs to be."

57:01>> So then I was like, "Okay, the next time I feel one coming on, I'm going to lean into it. I'm not going to lean away from it." Cuz like this leaning away from it isn't working. I'm just getting them again. Instead, the next time I remember I was like sitting in a huge meeting and I felt one coming on because somebody said something that super stressed me out and my heart rate was like 190. I'm sitting there and I was just like, "Just go for it. It'll be their problem, not yours if you just bust out like freaking out right now, foaming at the mouth. It was so weird because I remember in that moment I like felt it coming and then I was like just go for it and then I was like have panic attack do it.

57:32>> Mhm. >> It just kind of sat there and I felt the panic but it was just sitting in my body and I was like and then in that moment I realized I was like it doesn't matter how I feel if I follow these ways of doing things. >> Right. If I disregard how I'm feeling, which is like I want to run out of this [ __ ] meeting, then I can actually follow through with the plan. That experience then I trained myself actually out of them. I don't even think about them anymore. Um, and they used to like rule my life. Like it used to be like, am I going to get another panic attack? Like it was so embarrassing. And now it's like one, I don't even think I'd be embarrassed if I got I'd be like, "Sorry, having a panic attack." Um, but two, I'm not scared of them because anytime I get that same feeling, I'm like, "Oh, go for it." like it's not a bad thing.

58:18>> And so what I was doing in that moment that a lot of people don't allow themselves to do because they never want to see it through is I showed myself that there's nothing to be scared of by sitting with it. I didn't try to run. I literally didn't physically try to leave the situation. I didn't try to change the circumstance. I just said go for it. Let it happen. And it's the moment that you say like let it happen. Let the worst thing possible happen. It's when it starts to not happen. M >> so like when I say your mood follow the plan it's because if you can get past that barrier you can get past that spot where you like want to turn around we all develop a threshold right

58:51>> I'll stay there and I'll have the if I get above this level of anxiety then I've got to not follow the plan I've got to no because then what you do is you've taught yourself that every time you get to this level of stress now it's actually an emergency we've really got to do something but if you're like no keep it going let it go up >> then you're like there's no limit I can be as stressed I can be as emot emotional. I can be as scared. I can just sit with it and the same thing rules will apply. And for me, that's just helped me in so many situations because I do so many things that scare me.

59:19>> I'm sure. >> And I just realized like if I don't give myself the chance, it's like just give yourself the chance to see like what happens if you let the worst thing possible happen. And what happens is that you train yourself to show yourself that the worst possible thing is not something to be scared of. So that's the irony. It's like if you allow yourself to have the possibility of the worst case scenario happen, then what actually will happen is that you show your brain that it's not something to be feared and it will go away.

59:46>> And so that's why you say your mood, follow the plan, because that's the only way to get over the fear. If you don't allow yourself in those situations, the fear will never go away because you've never allowed yourself, your brain and your body to see that the worst case scenario doesn't happen. >> And here's the kicker. If the worst case scenario happens and you live, it will also deescalate you. So there's really no Yeah. Like as long as you live the next day, then you'll be okay. And I just I put myself in enough situations where I said like this is really risky.

1:00:16I took risks like with my own fear. >> Yeah. >> That is what allowed me to get to the other side of that. And so it's a little phrase I say to myself because like one of the things I struggle with is like I don't know how to show people like I still get scared all the time. Like I had [ __ ] I was nervous about this morning. I had [ __ ] I'll be anxious about tomorrow. I have a natural proclivity towards anxiety. I do. What emotional triggers that still challenge you up to this day? >> Plenty of things. I'd say right now it's probably around like health stuff. Like I'm so scared of dealing with that pain ever again. It's like PTSD type stuff like haunting you, right? So it's like every day I'm trying to do things that I wasn't doing before because I thought I was going to make the problem worse. And so I'm having every day right now I put a little plan together of like this is what you're going to do the next seven days because once you've gone through like chronic pain, it's like you have so many associations around that you your brain makes up of things that caused the pain that didn't. It's totally made up and it makes no It's not rational at all.

1:01:04>> But I've had to work on unwiring that and it's been really hard and annoying. >> And so every day I'm like, "All right, one step closer. Like what's one more thing that you thought was causing this pain? Okay, like we're going to do that today and you're going to see the pain's not going to come back because you had surgery and fixed everything." So it's like there's always something and my brain's just like that. It's like whatever there is like it'll latch on to it and be like this is your new thing to be scared as of for like a year and I just have to unwind it and lean into the situation. So it's always changing.

1:01:34>> Absolutely. As someone who has come a long way from being arrested six times, being overweight, being anxious, feeling lost, and being broke to where you are today. You always talk about the importance about investing in yourself. >> Yeah. >> Not just in terms of buying material things that depreciate really quickly, but also investing in skills that provide a return. What is one skill that you're so thankful for your past self for investing in

1:02:05>> decision-m? I have paid a lot of money to speak to people who I think are good decision makers. I've spent a lot of time studying decision-m. I spent a lot of time just trying to be around people I think are good decision makers >> and consuming a lot of content from I would say like books because they're old from people who make good decisions and a lot of time understanding psychology so that I can make good decisions. I feel that's very much something that people should invest in because if you just make good decisions it makes everything else easier.

1:02:35>> I actually learned a lot about decision-m from you. >> Oh that's great. especially with the relationship frameworks about whether or not to stay in one versus to leave. And I'm like, that is so helpful. >> I'm really glad. It's probably like where I feel most confident is I like making decisions. >> I feel like I've had a ton of repetition in many areas of my life and I've invested a ton in getting better in doing them, in how I think about them, in spending time on them, asking other people their frameworks, like trying them on. And I feel good in a position where I make a lot of decisions. So, I would like a lot of other people to invest in that because I think it's underrated, you know? I've made videos about decision- making and they flop, you know, because like, oh, decision making like

1:03:19>> I I love those. >> You love it. I know. I know. But it's like they're never hit right on social media. >> I feel like they will pick up because as long as you deliver value, it's only a matter of time that the market finds you. >> That's fair. And I think it's something that, you know, if you can make good decisions, then everything else is so much easier in life if you make the right decisions. But so many people have work ethic, they have diligence, they have grit, but they make one wrong decision. And you know, there was a book I read uh gosh, what book was it? I can't remember, but it taught the concept of a net zero decision,

1:03:48>> which is essentially you can do all these things right for your entire life. Let's give a really crude example. You can only ever sleep with boyfriends. You can be the fittest, most healthiest person. You can always take care of yourself and be very responsible when it comes to, you know, your intimate life and all these things. Then one night you can get really drunk, hook up with some random guy, boom, herpes. >> We call that a net zero decision, which means it negates all these other things you did. You now ended up with the same outcome as somebody who was probably sleeping around and doing all sorts of things and not getting tested and all for their whole life.

1:04:21>> The same thing can happen to people with fitness. It's like they can eat well, they can exercise, they can do all these things and then one day they push too hard in the gym and then boom, you know, bust a knee or bust a hip and then they've got to go get a hip replacement and it's like one day. And so a lot of people will make one bad decision and it will wipe out years of work. >> Sure. >> And I'm just really cautious around making decisions because I never want to do that. I don't want to net zero myself. I never want to disregard all the work that I do. And so I think hard work and diligence are very important.

1:04:51But if you don't make good decisions, then none of the hard work matters because you're just working against your strategy. >> That is so true. That's a good frame of mind to keep. >> Yeah. I think a lot of people do. I mean, even you see with like brand, you know, I think a lot of people can make like really great decisions and these are people that are probably more thinking about their brand, but they might be doing things, interacting with their audience, doing and then boom, one video goes out and it's like and it like completely ruins their brand, right?

1:05:17Because they just did something emotional or stupid or they listen to somebody else and >> happens all the time. >> I know what you mean. >> Yeah, plenty of instances of this. >> Yeah, absolutely. To wrap things up, your birthday was six days ago. Happy belated birthday. >> Thank you. 21. >> Exactly. 21 and thriving. What are you excited about in this season or chapter in life?

1:05:42>> I think that I'm really excited that I feel like I'm in a place where I feel very unapologetic about what I want to do. I don't feel like it's hard for me anymore to tell people this is what I want to do or I don't want to do. >> And that feels like a very good place to be. Even when over the last few years I was doing things I wanted to, I feel like I had to constantly apologize. It's like, I'm sorry. I want to live my life this way. >> Even you. >> Yeah. And now I think I've gotten to a point where I'm just like, I don't want to do that.

1:06:08>> Mhm. >> I feel very confident in guiding myself directionally with that. And I think it just feels really good to not need to apologize for doing the things that you want to do or that are most important to you. So probably more of some of the things like I've I've had that in the past. It's another level and it feels it feels really good. So I'm excited for that. It sounds like freedom and it sounds like a lot of peace >> actually. Yes. I would say yes. >> Yeah, that's amazing.

1:06:34>> It's a great way to put it. >> Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your insights, and your stories. I hope you understand this, but I just have to say it again. Thank you for your existence, you being out here, just keep on showing up. By the way, guys, Ila just had surgery and she's still showing up, providing so much value, pushing so hard to make her community and the overall internet community just a better place. Truly touches my heart and I'm so grateful for your existence. I'm sure millions in your community feel this way and millions more who are yet to discover you. So, where can everybody find you?

1:07:14>> It's very kind of you. Thank you for saying that. >> Of course. >> Yeah. Leila Hormosi on Instagram, Leila Hormmozi on YouTube. >> Yes. >> Um and at my podcast, Build with Leila Hormosi. >> Listen to it all the time. >> Oh, I appreciate you having me on. This was great. And thank you. You asked amazing questions, so I enjoyed it. >> Oh, thank you so much. Thank you.