Ehrliches Gespräch mit Leila Hormozi über Wachstum

0:00I know how to delegate I know how to give things to my team the only way to make business sustainable is to make sure it does not always all rely on [Music] you I wanted to ask you Lena how do you conceptualize your personal growth Journey because I know that you kind of started the growth Journey because you wanted to outgrow a really difficult situation early teens with your mom and that strategy of outgoing the situation worked so well for you that you eventually built and sold free business ups for 50 million at 29 and online there's a lot of conversations around enoughness right and so you could have stopped at this point it could have gotten complacent or you could have just had enough but you were like okay now is the time to hit the pedal and go what are people that don't understand your drive and your desire for growth what are they missing I think there's a couple things which is you know I think some of it might might ccle back to what I consider like what do I want to do with my life what's the purpose of life in general all those things like if you really go down to the root of it I think that's where a lot of people might stand with that you know for me I think from a very young age I have always felt that the purpose of my life was to realize the best version of myself and to tap into any potential that I possibly have and so I think from a from a younger age I've believed that if somebody else can do something so can I and that's been a belief that served me really well you know maybe I couldn't do it today but if I put in the work I get the skills I put in the effort then I could do it and so for me you know it's kind of funny it's like I sit here and you know I was talking to my team about this the other day even it's like the money is just a byproduct of all the other things that are what business exemplifies to me like business has become a vehicle for my own personal growth because I think a lot of people you know why was I able to outgrow that situation when I was younger I had no choice and it's not like I had no choice but it felt like hell and in business when you have hundreds of people who rely on you and you employ and who follow you you know at some point it feels like oh I don't have a choice I need to K I need to get better I need to rise the occasion and um I like that because I found that that's when I'm able to really tap into parts of myself that I didn't think were there and I'm able to break continue to break beliefs that I have about myself I have about the world that I find out were never true and so for me it's always been that vehicle and I think a lot of people hear that they're like that's great but you know I want to spend time with my family and I want to do all these other things I enjoy in life and I think that's just your flavor of how you go about doing things you know I think a lot of people see how much I work and they assume oh gosh you probably don't have a lot of time to do other things but the reality is is that I work with my family I'm married to my business partner my dad works in my company right my cousins we talk about business and I have the people that work for me are my best friends and so you know when people say well where's the work life balance I'm like I have intentionally created a place where it is not just work it is not just my life it's all it's all one and so I think that a lot of it comes down to being able to engineer that environment for yourself because you know it's like you don't rise to the level of your goals you rise to the level of your environment and when I have an environment full of people who I care about who I know rely on me who I would take a bullet for I'm going to level up when I need to and it's not going to feel painful and hard as much as it would if I were doing it alone and so you know for a lot of people I think that are looking like how do I do that that it's like how do you create a system where your business makes your family better like how could you involve your family in the business how can you you know use the business to make your family better use your family to make the business better I think I always think of it as one system rather than two separate systems it's kind of like in business if you were to have a beauty business and then randomly you're like you know what I'm going to start a uh business for you know manufacturing I don't know let's just say uh dumbbells right and it's like wow those are both products but they're like they don't help each other in any way yeah you selling dumbbells interferes with you selling beauty products but if I were to say well I want to start selling skincare those two would feed each other because if you buy my skincare you probably want my makeup and so I take much more of a skincare makeup approach to life rather than a dumbbell makeup approach to life and I think that's hard for people to see from the outside but it's why I'm able to keep going because I really love what I do I love who I'm doing it with and I'm happy every day that's such a beautiful answer and I actually have a question about integration later because I kind of had the intuition that you're really really good at this and that that's a major key for unlocking kind of so much of your potential holistically before that I would love to ask you it's triggering for others right that you keep growing and at the rate that you are and they start to compare themselves with you and I've seen so many people that get paralyzed by the comparison and it actually sabotages their growth in your case it's almost like the comparison with others feels your growth so how's your mindset different in that regard to people who kind of struggling with comparison and how do you operationalize using comparison as fuel rather than you know having it as a restraint I think it's completely normal that when you see somebody doing better than you in an area it can be that they're in better shape than you they have a better marriage than you they have Better Business than you they make more money than you they seem like better mom than you it could be anything right when you see that person I think most people in the Split Second have a feeling of Envy right or feeling of like you know [ __ ] whatever it is but what happens next we get to choose which is do you allow that emotion to dictate your behavior or do you choose to act in a way that would be productive and so I think what happens for me is that I might in a split second feel like dang Envy I'm like oh that's so cool that somebody exists that can inspire me and they've already run the four minute mile so I can learn from them how to train for it yeah and I think a lot of people what happens is instead of saying wow somebody ran that mile I can learn how to train for it they sit in a corner and they say like why am I not there why am I not better why am I not and I don't ever look at comparing outcomes I look a lot of times at comparing processes so if I want the same outcome as somebody that I'm comparing myself to I just look at the Reps how they put in more reps than meh and most of the time the answer is yes they put in way more reps than me at the thing that I am envious of right I can do that too that's under my control then it just comes down to am I willing to make the trade-offs because those reps in that one area obviously take away reps from another area you know it's like some women for example you know they might have just had two kids right it's like you have two kids like you probably don't have a six-pack two months later and they see girls online they say gosh I wish I looked like that wish I time to my hair my makeup but you also have two kids it's like you could take the time to do that but right now you might be choosing to spend time with your kids and so I think a lot of times it's contextualizing it meaning understanding that every kind of benefit in life comes with the tradeoff are you willing to make that tradeoff so that you can be that person right and then the second piece to it is you know I think if you're like yeah I want to make that tradeoff use it as inspiration learn what they've done you know get close to them so that you can understand like how did they train to end up in that spot what was their training process rather than beating yourself up for not being there yet and so I think it's really like a lot of us can be very strong on the outside but we might actually be victims of our own minds a lot of people on the outside appear like a hero or a Victor or a leader but they beat themselves up inside they make themselves the victim of their own mind and thoughts and I recognized maybe six seven years ago I still was doing that for myself I was still beating myself up I was still if I did something wrong if I wasn't as close to somebody else as I wanted to be I just spent all this time just hating myself for it honestly like I I can get pretty dark and so I would just be mad about it yeah and so and then you know I was sitting with my friend one day we were actually at her Cottage and I told her I was like I just feel so crappy that this happened and she was like okay and so what are you going to do and I was like f do this she's like all right well you shouldn't waste so much time beating yourself up over it because all that time you're taking beating yourself up over it you could be taking to learn and grow into doing this new thing and achieving that and I was like oh [ __ ] that makes a lot of sense like I'm taking all this energy and putting into something that takes me to a dead end yeah when I could be putting that energy into running form that mod that makes solid sense hey Evan here I just quickly wanted to hop want to encourage you to sign up to my newsletter when you do that you'll not only be informed as soon as a new episode drops but you also get access to my exclusive growth goodie bag that is a collection of Highly valuable resources provided by our guests and myself tools strategies case studies templates and so much more that will help you to grow and monetize that growth Journey if that sounds fair then click the link and make sure to sign up to money lter when we're not thinking about about you know how do you how do you decide the tradeoffs that has to go hand in hand with I have a clear version of where I want to go and who I want to be how do you cultivate that self-image and that you know what is Lea in five years from now how do I create her who do who do you decide what skills do you want to have how you want to look where you want to live right like what dreams to chase if you're so capable that you you know might be successful in either direction you choose yeah it's a good question you know my advice for somebody who doesn't have a vision to Anchor to is to look at all the people that inspire you and pick out like don't you don't need to be them there's rarely somebody that you're going to find that you're like I want to be every piece of them I mean even for myself like I think about it I'm like I know what pieces people will probably pick out and then they'd be like I'll leave the rest right and so I think it's looking at all the people you admire figuring out what is it that you admire about each person and then writing that down and then thinking of like how can I make this authentic to me like in what way can I conceptualize this so it makes sense for myself and so something that I think I've always done is I look at people and I know I have any one person who like greatly inspires me but I have a lot of people inspire me a little and I can look at the things they do the traits that they have and I can ask myself what is it that I admire about them what is it that I like about this person what's the one trait that I think this person has that I admire so much and then I write those things down and I think about them and I'm like okay well how could I do that and so you know in the very beginning when I was first starting my entrepreneurial journey I basically wrote out a list of all the character traits I wanted to have and I looked at it and I rated myself how high or how low I was in each one and that was very helpful for me because I realized there was some areas I was really strong in but there was also some that I was really weak in and what that meant for me is I looked at it and I thought too two things one I will be able to achieve my goals unless I take these weak areas and make them strong the second thing one thing that's very important to me is I really wanted a partner who also had those kind of traits right and I had I actually had another list with all the traits I wanted to partner and I looked in my list and I said well you're not going to get that partner unless you beef up your list yeah and I think that was something also as I realized like what kind of person do I have to be to attract other people to help me fulfill that vision of my life life you know because I think a lot of times too it's like we have this Vision but I don't want to end up alone you know a lot of it is this vision of the kind of people you want to have around the family you want to have the friends you want to have and I recognized that in order to have a spouse of a certain character friends of a certain character a company comprised people of certain skill and character I had to become a 10 10 in all those areas and so that's really what drives me is like I think for a very long time too when I was younger you know I think a lot of people can relate to this growing up you know probably because of my home situation and just because I think I just felt I wasn't like I didn't belong in any group right like I didn't have I wasn't like oh the cheerleaders oh the track Ross I was like on my own and I kind of just like could get along with anybody but I also didn't really fit in with anybody and so for most of my life I just felt alone and so for me a lot of it has been well one I would like to not be alone I would also not like to be with people who I feel like I don't want to be around like I am good company to myself so I can be alone but at the same time I would love people to share these cool experiences with and so I think that was a huge piece also of my vision is what kind of person do I have to become to be able to surround myself with people who make it worth it to not be alone because I felt for so long in my life like being alone was a better option than surrounding myself with these people because when I was around those people I felt more alone than I was by myself you know you think that that's um the underlying maybe problem people that label themselves as introverts um have that they don't necessarily have gotten Clarity around who they need to become and to be with the people that they want to hang out with that maybe not withd draw energy from them yeah you know here's the thing I think that labels can be useful when we're searching for a remedy for something but I think that labels are not useful when we're looking to stick with our problems and I think a lot of the times people think they're looking for a remedy but then they find a reason to never solve the problem in a label and so for me I've not found them to be more useful than not I find them that they're less useful than they are useful not saying they're not useful but just not as much as not using them and so for me when I was especially in my 20s even when I was a personal trainer at the gyms you know people like well you're very introverted I didn't like to go to the social events I didn't like to go to the Gatherings even with my family like when everyone comes in for Christmas I like go on a three-hour walk like I just want to be by myself and it took me years to realize that it wasn't that it was that I had no shared interests with anybody that I was a I did not have the same shared values and so the things that they wanted to talk about conflicted with the things I want to talk about and the things that they don't want to talk about bored me to death and I felt like I was being depleted of energy when I was talking to them and so it's funny because if you were to ask me 12 years ago would you have an office with I'd be like um no you know the first time someone asked me would you want to be a manager in fact I haven't Shar this before but when I was a personal trainer at 24 one day they told me that they had to send me to a training and I was like what's the training for they're like it's something for like you know people in their first year I don't know they like give me some vag explanation but you have to be gone for the whole day offs say at this place I show up and they're like so this isn't a training you've been selected because we think that you're a potential leader and I remember AB I sat there and I was like dude [ __ ] this [ __ ] I want to manage people you kidding me have to rely on them for my success I'm so good on my own why would I want people that was only C years ago you know and I look back at that and I think to myself wow I wonder how much faster I would have succeeded and excelled and honestly just found happiness if I just understood that I just wasn't around people who had the same values as I did and now that I have this building for example full of people who share the same values and have really powerful missions for their own lives one I don't feel alone and two I feel energized being in this building talking to these people rather than depleted and so you know I think a lot of times we feel depleted because the people that we're speaking to they don't share our reality and they don't share our values and so it's this odd dance of trying to avoid conflict because you also know that you could set them off at any point because they don't like the way that you live your life and there's nothing wrong with having different ways of doing things but it does get tiring at times to feel like you're tiptoeing and walking on actions it feels like you have to wear a mask right to you're just being in authentic and superficial because you actually can't go deeper thank you so much for sharing this I would love to Circle back to that moment when you were writing the list I also you know one thing that he said that stuck with me is like people pick a partner because uh of availability and even in business show me the paper where you have written down how you made that decision would just love to double down on that because I try to tell people all the time you need to start writing stuff down was your relationship to writing stuff left on and how has it actually helped you to grow I think that process process protects us from our emotions and so when you're making a decision in a highly emotional state not following a process you're more likely to make the wrong decision and so for me it's not about do I want to or do I need to it's this is what's best because our emotions can deceive us you know they're not always right they're not always hopeful and so for me I've always had to put safeguards in place to make sure that I make decisions based in logic because emotion goes all over the place fluctuates every day I would say that the first example of that was when I made the list about the partner I wanted in life because you know transparently I had been in relationships and I recognized that you know what's funny I've I I admire all the people I've been in relationships with did not end on a bad note with anybody I wish them the best some of them I could still talk to some of Alex is m most were really great people they just didn't want the same things as I did in life and so because of that it sent me down a little bit of a different path because the person you're with influences you so heavily and so you know when I'm in my younger 20s and I'm in a very like I'm at a fluctuation point I recognized that the people or the person I was with was not the person that was going to help me get to my goals and so I said like why do I keep ending up with these right and I read one of T Robins books about I think it's unleash power within and he talked about picking a partner out of logic and so I made this list and it was like a whole page long and then I made a list of non-negotiables and it was all the traits that I wanted this person to have and then it was all the non-negotiables that I have which were only a couple right it's just like okay you don't like hard lines right like don't cheat don't hit me like you know be ethical person I want somebody as good heart you know something like that don't lie honesty is really important to me and I looked at the list of all the traits and I said great so when I going dat I'm going to when I get back I'm going to look at my list and I'm just going to say like do they have this trait for not I'm going to use that rather than my emotions my emotions have been deceiving me and that list was like the best thing I could have ever done for myself because I'll tell you there was one guy that I was like oh wait you know I was like wow I think this guy is like my next boyfriend Al I came home and I looked for the list this is not it like it was total like butterfly emotions there was no evidence to support that we would make good life Partners right and so I felt grateful for it because every decision I'd made prior to that was just based on my gut and based on what felt good in the moment and what you know was enticing and you know like there's this desire when you're like oh it's this new person it's all exciting it's fun it's like you like being in the the beginning of things and I remember I just like after that I was like all right I can't see this guy again because you know what I'm going to trust the process because I realized I can't trust my feelings every day all day all the time especially around things like this where they have steered me wrong in the past and so it worked because the next time I used that list it was it's so funny I've been going on dates for about 18 months and finally I was going to go on a date with this guy named Alex and I woke up that day and I was like dude I I'm just I going be honest I was like I'm defeated like I I'd had such a bad date like two weeks before that I was just like goodness like I don't want to go on another first date and like feel so awkward just have like the worst situation ever and just like have to awkwardly leave and avoid a kiss and like all these things and so I texted him and I was like yeah I can't go I'm sick and the guy calls me he was like you don't sound sick and I was like okay and you know I liked that because I said I want someone who's assertive I don't like somebody who's too passive because I'm pretty assertive and confront not confrontational but direct and so I was like I can't have a guy in not otherwise it's going to be like an awkward Dynamic and so I was like okay I guess I'll go to date with him and you know we went on the date and there wasn't like some giant emotional spark but I really liked talking to him I was really interested in him and when I went home I pulled out that list and I looked at it and I was like holy [ __ ] this guy passes all the boxes like whoa and it was weird because I was like there was this odd dissonance because my feelings weren't supporting it it was like yeah it was cool and interesting but it wasn't like anything that I had for past relationships and man that was the best decision I ever made in my life like that was the best decision I ever made in my entire life and it wasn't based on my feelings was based on process so you don't subscribe to Len to your gut here's the thing what is my gut people say well what about your in what is my intuition please tell me the difference I I don't and I get it because I used to be the person I think I'm great gut most of the time in many situations when my emotions are low gut intuition what do I think gut intuition is in my opinion what it is is that you've had a past experience similar to this situation or many past experiences similar the more past experiences the stronger the gut feeling and so then when you have that feeling it's actually R evidence but we as humans are lazy and so we don't say I've had 17 guys like this that I've dated and they've all been [ __ ] we say I have a gut Fury with gu a shitthead and right right and so it's not that I don't think like gut I think it's experience and so I I always say evidence evidence evidence evidence above all because protects us from our feelings and so for me if I have a gut feeling about somebody I will say you know what this person has traits similar to these other five people that I hired in the past and those five people didn't work out in this company that leads me to believe that people with these traits don't fit in well with our culture that is much more palatable and that is something that I can explain to somebody but you know if I go to the CEO for 500 company or one of my portfolio company CEOs running a$ 300 million company I say and that feeling says this is what we should do how useful is that to anybody else yeah and so I think it's that and I also think that the reason that I speak against listening to your gut EVN is because the amount of women that I talk to that tell me my gut says it's not their gut it's fear it's fear and they disguise it with my gut told me not to my gut said I just sit there and you know what I see through is I see that they're just terrified and that they want to run the other way yeah but that in order to become the woman they want to become they need to run towards it and I know because I've done it yeah and so I just don't want that for people and listen not everybody wants their life to be challenging and to continue to grow but I think most people who listen to me do and so I just haven't found it to be the best advice for people because it's very hard for people to decipher between genuine experience that you've had and true Terror because our minds will play tricks on us to get us to run in the opposite direction of fear yeah that's so powerful you have this interesting relationship with not only fear but also discomfort so almost like you were talking about labelings just a second ago right about labeling stuff and Alex released this video recently about the maker and the manager yeah and then I thought that was helpful I'm like oh I'm a maker right so now uh and then a little bit later I listen to podcast from from you and you're like oh yeah I think I can uh that switching between different tasks is just that you switch your head up and then it's just a skill to acquire to switch between different tasks right so in one situation it's like really helpful because you explain kind of what's an ideal setup like a rule of fun on the other hand there are you where you like actually I believe that there is an opportunity to acquire skill which is painful right now but every day after I have acquired that skill I'm having I'm coming from a position of disproportionate advantage to everybody who's not capable of switching situations so I would love to know from you how do you ID because you seem to have developed such an eye on it how do you identify like oh this is a constraint because of a of a behavior skill that I'm lacking like how do you see that skill and then how do you go from this is the skill Gap that I can really pinpoint to a plan to acquire the skill and I would love to be a little bit selfish here and give you an example for something that I've struggled with for years is uh people pleasing boundaries for example I have recognized lack of skill but I'm not able to pinpoint what exactly is the gap and I've read all the books podcasts therapy coaches and I still feel it's not working so in those situations you know how do you really isolate down to this is where I'm missing the mark and and here's what I'm going to do about it you benefit more for people pleasing them when you don't if you didn't benefit from doing it why would you keep doing it that's how humans work and so okay let's look at something real real life right now yeah you were incredibly kind when I met you and you were like hello look like just very giving generous energy and I said let yes I'll take the podcast you know and it's that's not people pleasing directly but it is probably close enough that just the the traits that lead into people pleasing also lead into all these other areas and all these things benefit you that's true there's a big portion of success that kind of comes from generosity yeah and being a good person so I would ask yourself this which is do you need to eliminate it Al together probably not do you have a problem with it like where is it damaging your life that's a good question I think it is when I have learned that being kind and polite right yeah is genuinely helpful yeah and then there are people that do have kind of a good sense for boundaries and they and then there are people that kind of sense that you might have weak boundaries and then my and I have learned that it's good to be kind and polite stops me from saying uh sorry you can't get in I don't have the the time the capacity that I don't want to do this so I feel like this is kind of where it might break to kind of see the intent or even see the intention yeah but then I I fail to shut down the the BLS if that makes sense yeah so you're in a situation and the people are not the people you want to please because they are crossing a boundary right which they don't know about boundary but they're Crossing it for you and you don't say no you say yes instead what happens before you say yes I do push back but probably not assertive enough yeah I think this is the that that's so helpful I think this is the point that that is really bothering me is like um I do then politely Decline and when then push back comes I fall like a house of carts right and then I disappoint myself and I also feel violated and I resent the person yeah so it might be a lack of assertiveness I think that it might just be that you lack the skill of learning how to say no in a way that doesn't make you feel icky like I I'll an example right so I'm walking I'm going to walk the other day and I run into someone someone who's watches the content they're fan Super Lace person but then they're like can I stop by your office and I was like Bill and then he he looked at me and he was like oh [ __ ] okay and then he starts cracking up and I was like love you dude and then but I didn't say like no I was like No And for me yeah what I have found is that you know I have had to put boundaries in place in areas like that the amount of times a guy asks for my phone number or something and I just like No And so that has been what I have found as work for me and I think for you it's literally just that you need to figure out like what is your not icky no what's a no that feels good to you and it's literally as simple as reparsing it I'll give you another example so I don't like it when men that I don't know come up and hug me without asking it started happening a lot when I started making content I'd be in public people would come up and they would grab me without even saying anything and so there was time where I was at an event and there was a lot of people drinking and I had multiple guys come up and it just felt very violating because you know it was an environment we're all wearing we the 90° heat girls are wearing you know not a lot of clothing guys not wearing shirts I had multiple guys come up I'm just like this is not okay with me I'm married it just feels weird right and you're sweaty and it's gross and so you know I'm telling my friend I don't understand why they would come up to a woman who's married that they don't don't know and just hug me it Feels So pting and she was like L it's so simple you just go like this and I was like what do you mean and she goes you just have to practice I was like what do you mean she's like you have to practice it I was like cuz some guy cuz then I come back to her and I was like I I but he still care for me she's like did you do this I was like well no she's like all right let's do it right now so she would come to hug me I go oh I don't hug right and so I practic it with herur and then I have security guy I practiced it with with him it's I just kept practicing when anyone come back me oh I don't have in a nice way right just like if I'm at an event with 500 people and I've been sick recently A lot of people come to shake my hand hug me I'm so sorry I've been sick put my hands like this right and so I don't think that you have anything wrong with you this is not some big emotional thing you just need to figure out a way that you feel good saying no yeah you know I realize that when I say no like this people laugh so then becomes a positive for me I feel good saying no because I people are going to get chuckle out of it yeah you know like sometimes people like can I get your number I'm like I don't think Alex would like that you know like I have found that humor and being light-hearted works really well for me to keep boundaries and then were like no for real can I and I'm like I'm for real too and that's what works for me right and then I don't feel because I am not a mean person so like being like No And like you know some women they're like Lord no and I'm like yeah and it doesn't feel good it do no it doesn't feel good I don't want to make people feel bad I just don't want you up in my [ __ ] so that's it yeah you don't want to make the people feel bad exactly exactly so you just need to figure out what is your version of no like just find it's like learning how to dance like what's your dance is it this is it no is it like you could even be like you know I feel really I'm having a hard time seeing no braer I can't you don't have to give an explanation you don't have to give a reason but you could be honest and then practice it I know sounds dumb like me practicing this with 10 20 people 10 20 times now guess what happens somebody comes ugly I don't it just comes naturally I don't to think about it and I have to judge myself for it it makes so much sense and it's so interesting how changing such a little thing actually has such a disproportionately positive impact on your daily life right so that's yeah absolutely powerful I would love to Circle back can you see what you did when you help me isolate that oh cuz I would really love to be able to do that or kind of see kid is there is there something we can do that we can repeat what you just did there yeah so a lot of people I think are trying to make a change they look at the entire event say it's your overeating and they're like I ate a piece of cake and I had the ice cream and I had the this and I had to this and what I look at is what was the treasure moment which is like you had to open the door of the refrigerator right or maybe you got bad news from your boss or maybe and so for me in my opinion it's finding the not the because there's a chain of actions that occur right it's finding the micro action there's just one small piece of the linking of those actions it's the first one and that's the only one that you need to change or you need to interfere with you need to replace it with a different Behavior a lot of people see this huge chain of behaviors and say I need to change all of these the reality is you need to change the one that comes right before it goes into the thing that you don't want to have and so it latency and immediacy are more important than anything else and so if you can interfere right before that chain of the rest of the behaviors are going to happen you can change all of them but that one micro behavior and so I just find it it's much easier for me to change my own behavior and to change other people's behaviors if I find that micro one right before everything else happens you know for examp example I'll think of another one I know that for example I did a podcast on this recently but like you know with people in the workplace sometimes when people don't want something to happen they'll act a certain way right it's like they don't want to have a lot of work they'll act out right so I just find like what happens right before they start acting cranky right and so like a tool that I have is humor which is like if I buy in to their crankiness and I'm like my gosh what's going on I'm so sorry it's really hard and I'm just like that's how she goes man and I start acting like that it changes the entire linking of behaviors and they don't act like that at all and so I think that it's you know Tony Robins talks about like breaking State I think it's kind of similar to I'm saying but I say it's Breaking the Chain which is like what's the one Domino that if you tip it in the other direction it's going to tip the rest of them either won't tip at all or go a different direction does that make sense yeah makes it l makes so so so much sense you spent a lot of time right understanding behavior and understanding how to teach others as well I would love to know do you have a few more insights like this where you're like oh this is a real quick run I wish I had um known about this earlier and then maybe also some resources for people that want to go really deeper and educate themselves I think that there's a big difference if you have a company and you want to hire people do you want to get the best out of people you want people to do good work in your company whether it's one person two people 10 people and maybe you want to have a good group of friends like I think this can apply to all of these but I think that understanding the difference between insulting somebody and critiquing somebody has allowed me to hold people accountable without it feeling heavy and feeling punishing a lot of people say to me well I don't know how to hold people accountable because you know I feel like I'm just being an [ __ ] I feel like I'm being mean whether it be like a spouse and something they're supposed to do together a friend that had a commitment or somebody in their company who has you know things they're supposed to do to make the company money and a lot of the times because lot traditional management teaches us to tell somebody oh here's how you're acting don't do that anymore right so when I have a hard conversation I'm confront them I'm going to say you can't do this anymore okay well what you're doing is you're having that person focus on all the bad stuff but they don't know what to do instead and so it's that as well as a lot of times I'll give you an example right so I was watching um selling tza and Mary yelled at Christine and I remember this well when I thought about this she's like you just can't be doing this [ __ ] no more she was like what [ __ ] she's like you you just act like a [ __ ] I need to stop act like a [ __ ] and just stop be a [ __ ] okay so you did not critique her you insulted her which means you attacked her as the person rather than what she did and it's you need to focus on the do rather than the who this could be in marriage Friends Business it does not matter insulting a person and calling them a name you know associating them with something negative does not make people get better but what you can do is two things right if you want someone to get better you want to critique Behavior you talk about you told me your goal was this so it's like example right husband never wants to tell the wife when she said she's going on a diet and you see her eating the ice cream right and he's like I cannot say anything I can't tell you how many got to say this but if the husband asks her about her goal that she displayed him and he says like oh yeah he he that's great like you told me your goal was to get here like I'm are you on track like how far are you in hitting that goal it doesn't come off as something so negative right because you're just engaging asking them about their progress towards goal yeah and it's the same way in business which is like okay yeah you had that goal of hitting this many sales this month where are you at right now right and so it's talking about the future we're going towards and the activity they're doing not who they are as a person and so I have used that in I mean probably more in my relationship than I have even in business but also in business is just learning how to use I would say like future facing Behavior rather than like past dwelling Behavior I simple by these words because if you focus on the future and all the things we're working towards people forget about the past and all behaviors that are linked with it and so if you look at like for example for me right gosh when I was like 17 and I was angry and getting arrested all the time I went to therapy and the therapist was always asking me tell me about your mom we can't move on and you can't get better unless you talk about your mom what happened and every time I would just go into the session and I would just start talking about this these terrible things that happened and how I felt it would reopen this wound over and over and over again what do you do with that yeah and I ended up going and seeing a different therapist and she was I want to talk about you and she she said she's like you're an adult what are you do about it mhm and that it was like the best thing anybody could have ever said to me I was like think I remember thinking my mind I was like they gone I'm so sick of talking about this I'm so sick of talk I don't like talking about people ask me now but can you tell me about I don't even think about I think about yesterday I'm so focused on the future and going forward I just don't think the past is relevant and it doesn't help us get better but like focusing on the future and the skills that we need to attain to to make that Future come true and come to life that helps us get better and so I think for a lot of people you know in terms of understanding Behavior if you beat yourself up and think about your past and think about all the mistakes you've made you do to yourself the same things I talk about how these bosses and these spouses do to those people and a lot of people can get it right with others but they don't get it right with themselves and I think that that is a huge unlock for people to change which is relinquishing yourself from anything that happened prior to the present moment not because it's invalid and not because it didn't happen but because it's not useful you're not going to become the person you want to become by dwelling on the things that happened a week ago it's rather just looking at the discrepancy between where I am staying and where I want to be in 10 years or tomorrow or a month from now and so for me I have a lot of things from my past that I could consider shameful and I could dwell on and I did for a period of time you know I felt really ashamed about like how fat I was how many times I got arrested like just a lot of things I did did that didn't help me it didn't make me a better person it didn't help me hit my goals looking at where I wanted to go and what skills I need to acquire to get there always did that's so helpful do you what you say that that's the secret behind your rate of growth because what what just blows my mind about you and and having watched you you know it's just it goes the rate in which you adapt and change and learn uh is that connected with you know not dwelling at all or what are some what are some of the things that you do that allow you to basically adapt so quickly and change VI so quickly I think that it's the fact that I don't dwell on failure I can try again much faster than other people because I don't I don't judge myself for it anymore and I don't make it mean something and I don't even need to figure out why it didn't work it just didn't and so for me I just get back up and I try the next whether it be personally professionally I just want to get the Reps in and so for me I think one I am a little bit obsessed so like any everything I do like you know you look at like Mastery 10,000 hours I put in pretty much every hour of every day into thinking about business and thinking about growth and thinking about people and Leadership and how to build a great company you know it's like what I think about when I wake up or when I go to bed that helps me a lot in terms of I spend a lot of time on something the second thing though is a lot of people try something it doesn't work and then they just get stuck on it and I've just recognized that especially in my business that just gets me nowhere um I make just as many mistakes as anybody probably more than anybody in my own company and I'm okay with it I don't think it's a bad thing I use myself as an example all the time to tell others like look at these things I did wrong like you can make mistakes too and I actually think that's why our companies are able to grow quickly is because I I try really hard to create an environment where people are not afraid to f fail and when they do fail we don't dwell on the failure we just talk about okay what are we going to do next time M like lost a half million what are we going to do next time okay because then you feel safe to try things and when you feel safe to try things you go a lot faster think about it right so like if you're try a bike for the first time right and every time you fall you fall into like this cushy pad right it doesn't hurt you don't get [ __ ] up you don't get scrapes whatever you're going to ride way faster and your your skill at riding a bike going to increase that much faster than the person who every time they fall it's painful they're bleeding they have to put all these bandages on there to cast right the thing is is that the gravel or like the street the pavement that we're falling on is our isn't our own minds yeah and so I just try my best to create an environment where I just detach myself from that and I think a lot of it is if I go to like where does my mind go something will happen I will feel a pain of anxiety I will want to do something about it want to talk about it want to dwell on it and then I tell myself that will help you'll make it worse dwelling on it makes it worse move forward and this is always where my mind goes now it's like don't do that as much as I may really want to I really want to do that thing I try really hard not to and that reinforces that it also gets easier over time yeah it does get easier over time because every time we resist any kind of type of urge or compulsion it's easier tomorrow and I always think about like well is the behavior that I'm about to execute going to make me better or worse tomorrow if the answer is worse I would rather take the pain today than the pain tomorrow that probably also creates acceleration in learning it's like okay pain give it rent help yeah I wanted to ask you something in that regard of learning from past mistakes so I'm one of those entrepreneurs stuck around the fre million a year mark and uh watched the talk that you had there in the conference room which I felt was so interesting from the entrepreneurs that were kind of at this level and there were two scenarios that I found particularly uh relevant kind of for for my situation and also for this conversation around gr one was uh this guy he has the sales W it didn't work out so uh he asked you should I jump back into the business or should I try to rescue him you advised jump back into the role right it's going to be uncomfortable it's going to be bones for a while and I'm at that situation in my business so after February changed a lot about operational management also because of Alex recommendation he kind of spotted it from all the front was like yeah operations and I was like okay yeah and it kind of it unwrapped itself with with the team structure things Chang I jump back in to take a lot of work back on myself and you know it was a correcting course and I think in like a month or two we're having so much momentum again that I feel okay I'm ready to attempt another round but now I'm also maybe at this point where I'm seeing like building team is this whole problem right so I don't want to make the same mistake again and there are three kind of specific things that that I'm really struggling with to understand the first one is one person fulltime or hourly experts for Stuff the other one is that based on something that you said I thought I have a really big Vision so everybody can fit and my vision was I want to allow people to grow their personal brand Under mine when they coach people for example and then they can also do one toone work with the people and so I really try to empower because I thought that that would lead to a form of incentive alignment and having sense of ownership and commitment yeah but didn't add up to that and now I am not sure did I just do a poor job selecting the person or was that not a good idea altogether and should I focus on the brand Evelyn and there's a team Evelyn that is a little bit more anonymous because you know when things don't work out you communicate obviously with your community and you can manage kind of what's going on but you don't want to expose them kind of often to now you have this relationship with this person and and now you know they gone or maybe and the f is just in general how do we create when we grow so fast and when we're doing well kind of financially how do we avoid kind of overcompensating or creating entitlement with incentive structures what are incentives that we can give though that don't create entitlement or cheny in those stages understood so first and second question kind of go together right because you're asking me do I do the full-time versus the expert because I'm guessing those experts are people tell me what your current model is so I understand so the current model is basically it's a mixture of content community and Consulting Yeah so basically um I have content that is provided then we have a community where there's kind of written feedback now with school actually have members helping members which is much better because there's the connection points between them and then there's the Consulting part where for example you can M your copy or your Facebook ads and you get a review and so um right now I'm testing in in one Community doing all of that just myself and in the other communities um you know I still have coaches but the the main problem was you know bringing people on for kind of first level support and then that didn't work out and it was making it was making a really bad experience for the members because they felt like oh have to jump through so many Hoopes to actually get to Evelyn and it just didn't feel yeah they they were feeling that there's not this immediate connection anymore because there's other people rather than you because there's other people yes and it um it didn't translate to and you know I put a lot of effort also into kind of making it the same level of skill and everything but still you know people prefer to hear from me and I also know kind of how to deliver this in a scalable format but I was not sure am I supposed to do that still or am I supposed to not do that so I tried to profession but it kind of made everything worse and even more challenging for me and for the members I'll tell you what thousand foot I would say which is that you're at the point where you have a skill deficit which is learning how to train people properly and select the right people right and I think I'll give you an example right gym launch I didn't have the skills I have now you know four years in we switched to a model we have these coaches who are experts lots of them would leave and take people with them right and so I was like it's this Ste the right because like they're I'm like investing in them and they're like leaving to take of these people right but now for example I have people on my team they're on social media they're in my blogs on the website they get people left and right being on their doors but they're the right people and I trust that if they wanted to lead they would also tell me you know and it would be like a conversation because I now have skill of learning how to train them to be to I would say like use my voice right in the areas that it makes sense in areas that they're representing me and on the other side I have now the skill to really discern what type of person is right for my business and that took a long time to learn and there's nothing that can accelerate that except for reps and doing it right now I would say this which is you have to decide what type of business you want my type of business that like everything I talk about that's not the only way to do things I have plenty of friends who are on Man shows it's like they are the business I just have never wanted things to be that way even with my own content you know I people have said recently content's got really good well that's probably because we have a whole team now on my content and I interact with them every day and I just said to ads I was like I got to do this the same way I do everything it's a team that builds my content not just me and so I think you have to ask yourself what type of business do you want to run and what type of Life do you want to have because it's a very different type of business it's a very different type of life that goes with it and pros and cons to both neither is right or wrong both work both have their limitations which one do you want I guess it's a question of how successful can a one man or one woman to be not as successful as the other one right but then again in success means different things for different people are to do the TR up the likelihood that the business like your business if use to just be your face will be easier especially in the short term harder in the long term the likelihood it becomes a $200 million business is low the other way of getting experts and teaching people and training people and creating incentive plans all those things much harder in the short term much more likely to succeed in the long term and has a lot more scalability so the likel that you could become under Million Dollar business is much higher and so that's how I would look at it the difficulty and is that this is leadership and management people like can you teach me leadership and I'm like yes let me write 20 books leadership is a combination of 50 skills whereas something like sales is like and sales is hard it's probably like 10 or 15 right leadership is like you have to know sales you have to know marketing you have to know what gets people to do things you have to understand CS you have to like you have to understand all these things and all these skills around managing people influencing people that you don't need if you're doing any one of these things and so the reason that a lot of people give off is because it takes a long time to get those skills so a lot of times what happens is the business is growing faster than your skill set is this happened to me too and I realized it and I think that the best thing that I ever did was just keep trying because I said to myself like well what kind of business do I want I was like I'm going to build something that like impacts the world one day you know and I'm not there yet and I don't even think I'm there now but like if I even want a shot at doing that and it really impacting the amount of people I say want impact I have to learn how to do this and so if it means that I get less in the short term that's fine with me it's also the type of business I want to run I don't want to feel like I'll comp pi to this so when I was a personal Trader I decided I want to do bikini competition and I thought doing this competition would be so inspirational to people and so this and all and I did the competition and I remember at the end of it you know I st on sa I got second place I Nally qualified and the first thought I had was I never want to do this again and the reason why the first word that popped my mind is this is selfish it doesn't I'm not on a team I'm doing everything alone and I don't want to keep doing everything alone it felt so lonely it was like everything I'm doing is to serve me and I don't have a lot of people bond in on my vision how many people care if I win an Olympia right maybe when once you get to the top but on the way it's like okay so you're like working out a lot eating chicken and so the difficulty is that with the model where it's one face is that it's very hard to recruit people to help build your vision because the vision is you and so for me I I prefer to take the harder route MH and I think that's that's the decision for you to make right now now in terms of the people being the experts and all those things like you know sometimes what you need to do is you need to sacrifice their expertise for somebody who is a culture fit who you know will be loyal and not leave and you have to invest a lot of time into trading them yeah you know I have people that okay so I was we had an event not that long ago and a guy said something he's like well you know because somebody's not really on boarded for 6 to 12 months and I was like thank you that's the best thing I've ever heard anybody say because it's true it takes six to 12 months to even integrate somebody fully into the business and so you know I look at it as like okay how long do I need to invest in this person but how much am I going to get out of them if I get somebody who I invest that much in yeah and so I think for you you know finding people who are you have to understand your avaton which is like at what point their Journey are they they need to be able to have a large amount that they learn from you if they don't have they this much they're going to learn from you they don't get a lot of from working for you yeah whereas if they have this much they get a lot of value out working for you it's harder for you at first but it pays off in long term and people who learn people who learn more in the workplace stay four or five times as long as people who have nothing to learn in the workplace so I would reconsider what type of person you're looking for for those roles because what I found in the past is that I just selected the wrong people I think that makes a lot of sense and that kind of drives towards one person you can really invest in and maybe you know so drag along all day which is uh to really invest in in getting them there let's think about this right like if you found somebody who's just like I admire the [ __ ] out of eelyn and like I just would do anything to work for her and then you invest in that person and you know they're a good person and they're honest and they're trustworthy and they're loyal do you think that within three to four months you could teach that person the things in one area of expertise so that they could help teach the students for sure it's hard but it takes a lot of [ __ ] time like I I look at it like this like I grow people and the business will grow yeah if I grow the people the business will grow and so at some point you alone it's going to be difficult to grow the business you can do it but I also tell you like I have so many friends who are the face of their business and they're so lonely and they're so stressed and their business are at 15 20 million and they're the face and they're doing everything know they don't have a team of loyal employees or teammates that want to win with them because they don't feel like it's a team because it's like it's actually just the genius with a thousand helpers and they don't like the fact that they're one of the Thousand yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah so the big Vision to fit was the right idea execution with the [ __ ] yeah we just have to try again you just have it takes listen leadership and management and managing people is going to take more reps than a lot of other other things because it has more skills involved and you have to identify which of those skills that you're missing I mean I'll tell you my vision for my content what inspires me in making my brand is that I would love my branding big enough one day that when I have people in my company that I want to put up and say like you know what this person is going to go off and start their own thing I can like pump them up I can help them start it maybe acis.com is a board advisor and then I can put them on my platform and say like go to this person you know I got that from was the Kardashians yeah hair makeup friends it's like they all have their own businesses that they have little pieces of right but they've helped them get that success by elevating them with their platform and I was like wow how cool would it be if I could do that for my team by having a platform you know and so I say that to people and I share that with my team if you have a vision like that share it with them because I think also the bigger that you like it's like everyone wants to hold back everyone wants to reserve and they want to say like oh no cuz like what if they [ __ ] that [ __ ] like so what they're going to leave and it's going to suck and it's going to be hard like business is tough and so for you I can tell that you genuinely want the best for them like let it out tell them you know be loud about it I think that's the one regret I have of my last companies I was not loud about how much I wanted to do for the people on my team because I was scared of being taken advantage of yeah that makes a lot of sense and it you know I think when you have been taken advantage of like a few times you start to have like this almost like a protective posture then you create the situation that you're avoiding yes so almost like you know you uh you had a bad relationship and now you say oh I'm not emotionally available for my new partner because I had a bad relationship exactly like that's tough that's so so helpful when it comes to kind of learning these skills I I believe that very often or maybe the question changes now um did I attempt for for the big strategy too early before acquiring the skill so I I kind of would love to get to the point to understand at what level what skill set it how do you properly assess where you are and you know what levels do you see kind of in business growth Journeys and where would you say okay if you're making multiple six figures a year like this skill set you need to have it nail down if you're going to the multiple seven Mark like this skill set I want you to have done do you have kind framework for that I would say that generally there's skills needed that are technical skills I think a lot of leadership comes down to like more emotional skills but I would also say this which is like you don't get the skills by sitting on the sideline of reading [ __ ] books yeah you get the skills by doing the thing so is it that you need the skills to hit that kind of Revenue or is it that you start hitting that kind of Revenue and you gain the skills to make sure that you keep going chicken or the egg I don't know and so I would say that in the beginning there's a lot less people skills needed you know to sell tell somebody one time on the phone or through a webinar is actually fairly easy compared to this is what I say selling somebody every day on the fact that they work for you and every hour of every day that they put in is for you that's a sale that you make every moment of every day with the people on your team and so what I see a lot of the times is that people to get started you know to go from zero to a million being able to sell something consistently so it's like you have the skill of selling and influencing and you have the skill of consistency you can stick with something right because the beginning you're going like this and then to get to a million a year it's like you have to learn how to be consistent have a schedule manage yourself and then to get to 3 million you have to learn how to manage some people right you have to be able to have vendors agencies a couple people that can help you get to where you need to go but then at 3 million then it's like oh I need to be able to duplicate myself and that's when it's really the point of like I have to be able to give something to someone and they have to be able to do it as well or better than me otherwise the company does not work and so at that that point it's learning how to train people and that is where I would say the biggest thing comes into play which is giving feedback how do you train people you watch them do something you give them feedback on the thing they did and a lot of people don't watch enough or don't give proper feedback and proper feedback means the behavior changes if you give feedback to somebody the behavior doesn't change the feedback was not feedback because feedback in out of definition means that behavior changes and so a lot of people I think don't put the time into that that's actually required to get people to be trained up I would say that at the point you're right now it's putting in those feedback systems so that you can constantly be giving people feedback about what they're doing well I say it like praise them into success like I'm constantly trying to find Opportunities to tell people what they did well and constantly trying to put myself in situations where I have disability where I can watch them do their job and get them feedback so I can get them going in the right direction as fast as possible and that's a whole another thing you have to do and so it's like well people like well I'm still doing these other things well the faster that you learn how to train people the faster you can hand off those other things and so a lot of times it's you hand off the thing and you do it with them first right it's like I'm going to be holding their hand while we're doing it together and then you hand it to them and say you do it now I'm going to watch you and I'm just going to give you feedback until it's where it needs to be it just requires patience a level of I would say like social ability because you have to be like talking to people all the time rather than like working by yourself which is usually like a different a change in going from a million to three million to 10 million yeah I talk to a lot less people in the business at one or two million than at 10 15 20 50 like it just the amount that you interact with people only continues to go up basically yeah that's really the switch that I think has to occur you know great leaders give great feedback and great feedback changes behavior and if you can change their behavior enough then you can get people to do the things that you've been doing this so so helpful I would love to also Circle back on another question T I saw you answering there really really well there there was this lady and she asked you basically do I double down on my organic or do I go into pay that you said pay that huge learning curve you not maxed out your potential with the organic so do that but also make sure it works and she was like yeah I'm sure it works because when I'm running this challenge then we get good results and you're like why are we not running the challenge like all year round right and so in kind of the or under the umbrella of growth having a all year round growth system for your business right A lot of people cannot stick with that either because they cannot identify like oh this is the growth thing that we did that we should be doing again or they're like yeah this is the grow thing we did but it was super exhausting so let me give like three months of casual business before I can even attempt or you know it has to go down to pain point before we can attempt it again so I would love to know how can we identif by which is this kind of now to put in analogy of um this challenge right that she ran that that catapulted her that we can maybe find in our own business and then how do we build a yearlong growth system around it without burning out people burn out because they don't use their teams like most people that burn out this is the thing that's crazy people who I'm just going to use the word burnout used it burn how so many more people between 1 million to 3 million to to even 10 million burn out than somebody that's has a $50 million business because I will burn out because I know how to properly utilize resources yeah right I know how to delegate I know how to give things to my team the only way to make business sustainable is to make sure it does not always all rely on you because if your workload is unsustainable and you're the one who runs the company you're also the one who tells everybody what to do so go tell people what to do and don't put it all on yourself and and that's really where this issue comes from and so in terms of companies that go like this you know we actually and right I'll anonymize this I knew a couple people and they had businesses where they would like do these launches and it was this up and down and all this stuff and I I remember you know telling Alex specifically like this person will never get to the next level because they won't hire and train people to be as good or better than them they wouldn't hire people to be as good are better than them because they didn't want to pay it or they wouldn't train people because they didn't have the time or patience just get they have very low frustration tolerance and so I look at everything you just said as a symptom of this person did not know how to build team because if you're doing things to the team guess what teams love taking on hard challenges together I like doing hard stuff in business because I have a [ __ ] great team and like when I get to do hard stuff we get closer and we become a better team together but if you're doing it all alone and you're just dragging people across the Finish Line that's the problem it's not the business model it's the fact that you try to do everything yourself and we live in this culture of I love individuality but I also am not supportive of doing everything by yourself it's like Community is important feeling like you've created a place that has community and you have people that have your back and you have theirs and you get to do things together like it makes it hard challenge fun and I don't know how else to do business like it has to be fun you know like I like the hard challenges that we have because I get to work more with people I like you know I get to go through challenges with them like the reason that you know I'm still so close to Maggie and kale run gym launches like we were in the [ __ ] together during Co you know and me and Maggie and kale and Alex like we all were just like in it together in the thick of it and it made us so much closer you know I love them and so what's missing and I'll just say it again like it's so seldom that somebody that's running a much bigger business gets as burned out as somebody who's running a smaller one it's because they're not running the whole thing themselves they have other people running it that makes much sense do you still sometimes do a like M hire and then if it happens to you how do you undo it with the least damage I admit when I'm wrong unfortunately because of labor laws and all those things like there's really so much for certain people that you can say I have found that when you let somebody go the more that you say the worse it is I used to think the opposite I used to think I have to tell them everything if you tell somebody all the reasons you let them go you basically are insulting here's all the reasons I'm letting go either I'm an idiot and you decided to work for one or you're an idiot and here's why and so most of the time I'm very professional about it and I just try to do as much as I can to make it as to remove as much embarrassment or humiliation as I possibly can and I try to do it quick so if I realize somebody's not fit and I M hired I then basically I'm like all right I'm I need to exit this person and I need to say why did I Mish hire okay you know what we did this part of the interview process probably didn't we were going too fast we missed this piece or you know we thought we needed this but we actually need this and now I know that this person's not going to succeed here and so to the degree I can I try to be as honest as possible but I try to move quickly on these things like I do not let them dwell I don't like having it on my mind I don't like my team being focused on it and so I generally like to make a environment where when we do know that we're we're certain that this is not right person we exit them real quickly because like they need to go find a place that they are the right person for and I'm holding them back by keeping them here now does that mean I don't pay them like a general sence all those things no I I try to make sure I I pay well when somebody's not a right type of team but like you know I'm like nine years into this it doesn't get easier to be like hi bye like you're off the bus like it never feels good people are some people can act like really great at the moment and then they come try to sue your ass like I've had everything and so it just is what it is like I've recognized and now I just know if I fire someone the relationship is often done unless it's mutual so like there's been times where like it's leading up and we're both like this is really not a fit and we can still talk after and be fine right and maybe we'll work together in the future I do have those instances but when it's like they want to be here and everyone knows that they shouldn't be here I just know that that person is just going to associate me with this very negative event and they're probably going to want to avoid me in the future but here's the thing is like me keeping that person I I sacrific the rest of the team and I sacrificed that Vision that I told them I was going to get us to by keeping this one person I can't even tell you how many businesses have one person preventing the whole thing from growing it's like we have this one sales guy and because of him I can't pay everybody else what I need to pay them so I can't get Talent we can't scale sales like so Jared's the reason that you can't scale your company It's like because they're afraid of a convers ation yeah and I just know that I'm going to be super nervous and I'm going to have like sweaty Palms I'm probably going to be up the night before I'm going to feel sick to my stomach and not eat so what I can get through that you know what I mean I'm not going to die and so I just try to set the example every time I do it for everybody else do it the best way possible with as much grace it is a situation that is really hard to turn into a positive for the other person yeah I feel like a reason why I have often avoided situations like this because I was always afraid of some sort of retaliation like when you just said oh and then they tried to sue you it's like oh I got a like sick to my stomach everybody feels this way though like listen listen nobody likes firing people like it's not I hate firing people like what you're said like every person hates it and every person's like why do I because it [ __ ] sucks like what do you mean like it just sucks like I I don't know what else to put like it's not there's no part I have to not like magically made it more like less painful like yeah I just take the [ __ ] hit you know what I mean and so like you can take the hit too it'll be fine yeah here's the thing nothing's ever as bad as you think it's I mean I can't even tell you the amount of times I'm like oh my god get extra security at the building because it's it's going to go crazy you know and then it's like nothing because most people are also they they want to move on too you know and I so sense yeah I feel like it just unwrapped like so many things for me and it is something that you have also set out to do with your content you you communicate that in gym lunch you were missing that opportunity right of sharing and teaching others and now you're doing it with your content what do you think this desire comes from from passing on the knowledge and and the learnings that you have because you know you might as well just do it for your company or like really KS friends or all the portfolio companies you manage I mean I get benefit from it I'm able to attract people who share my values on my team now it's much easier for me to get people to work for me who share my values because they can go watch my content before it was like Alex was the only person that people really associated with the company and there was this whole other world on the inside that nobody knew about and so it led to a lot of mish hires right and mismatches so it benefits me in that way you know I'll be honest I think that I set out to do it because I was like I want to help people avoid a lot of the pain that I've incurred and like what is the point of incurring this pain if I cannot help somebody else avoid it feels like that's how you grow and make the world better but then I think it it was such a challenge for me that then it was like you cannot give up because this is clearly something that's really hard for you it was hard for me to show up on content it was hard for me when in the beginning I got made fun of all the time and people would say really mean things and people would make videos and spread rumors about stuff specifically about my voice and why is your voice so low all these theories and so a lot of it it started as I want to help people and then I think it got a secondary reinforcer which was I don't want to stop doing something just other people make me feel ashamed you know and I got a lot of times where I felt ashamed i' wake up and somebody made I remember one one morning I woke up and this guy made a YouTube video about me and he was like is Lea marosi a [ __ ] or on steroids and I was like either what the hell and I remember that moment I was like I hate like I literally was like don't want to do this why but and me it's the the next thing I say these things right and I'm like you know you're not going to say Stu you can't because you made a promise to yourself and like that's more important to me than any judgment or any criticism that I get and so I think it turned into this journey for me because I think I realized one I'm not as good at making content as I thought it might be you know just because I watched my husband do it for eight years doesn't mean I'm going to be able to do it and the second was that it's benefited me a lot of ways you know it's like I get to see all of these people creating better workplaces like creating better mental environments for themselves and then creating better workplaces for everybody else like if there's one thing that I could leave people with by the end of my time in business it would be how to be a great boss because like that changes it can change some's entire life it's like their spouse of their boss it's like you have two entryways it's like that's why I talk about those things because those are like the two the two people that have the most influence over your life and when you have a boss it's like you have all the skills in the world to be a great and you just choose not to and that is crazy to me but I think not everybody thinks that way and so for me if I can help spread that message and get that out to people that means a lot to me because that makes everybody better not just business owners but also the people that work for them and then the second piece to it is like again you know I recognized how it it's actually very hard for me and it was a skill that I was I had a lot of skill deficits in terms of making content I still do and I said like I don't want giving up on things that are hard like if it's hard I want to lean in I want to really Master it and I think what I've gotten from making content is I truly feel like one I can completely be myself I don't have to be some filtered version that I think a lot of people do in making content because I just recognized I was like people are going to talk [ __ ] about me no matter what they're talk [ __ ] and make up stuff that's not true no matter what [ __ ] trying to like be cool or whatever you know which is like kind of how you feel in the beginning you like like like be this thing I don't know and now like yeah [ __ ] that [ __ ] that doesn't even work so like I it's given me a lot of freedom to just be authentic and I think that does translate into what I do in my company how I show up for other people to because it's given me the confidence that no matter what people say about me I'll continue being myself and being who I want to be that's so powerful and I think you said that the price of grow for success is to be misunderstood right to be okay with it sounds like the content game really kind of grow home that experience and totally unexpected you know I didn't know what it was going to be like to start making content I'm sure you felt that at times where you're like I would not expect that people would think this about me you're like oh I once had a a short going viral like my first sh I was like I'm so excited and then oh my goodness um from you know your looks your accent I actually got a had a little birth mark here I got it removed after I was like okay so yeah it's it's it's really triggering and it's very very challenging and the people that kind of write it they actually don't care right so they for them it's sitting out and going on with their day so you said you're your spouse and your boss are the major influences and there's one piece of your story that I really love is when you said that Alex I think on the on the second date unlocked something huge for you which was you always wanted to help people and that was clear for you but you didn't know that you're allowed to also make a lot of money doing that yeah and I would love if you could talk to me about how we often feel that something is a contradiction and then again kind of circling back to what are things people struggle to integrate that actually make a lot of sense together but they feel like I can only have one or the other yeah it's funny because I think that we've just created a lot of like polarization in society and so it's all of these ores rather than ANS and I like ANS not ores because I think that I like being different and unique and I found that the more that I lean into not making sense and being misunderstood the happier because we have all these social norms that are put upon us we grow up and so we think we can't have this and that but we can't it's just that nobody else does right and so you know I think that my my comeback to somebody who says likew you know I want to help people but I don't want to make a lot of money is well wouldn't you help more people if you made some money and I think some of that is due to ignorance of how to use money because here's the thing people say at some point you have enough and I'm like I don't know if you know what you're saying I think that you don't know how to use money if you don't have the skill of spending money in a way that makes the world better then it makes sense that you don't want more because you just you just associate money with making yourself comfortable personally yeah but my association with money is building something in inedible right right now it's building this business and I know that if I build this business I can build something even bigger than this business next because I will use the money from this business to do that and so when I first met Alex and I told him because he said like how much money do you want to make and I said honestly I just want to help people like that's really what I'm focused on he said what if people make money too and I thought about it a lot and I really thought and I feel this even today which is like who's a better Steward of money than somebody who doesn't even care about it true I don't I'm not looking to hog all the money and you know use it for bad I'm not using it to make Tom World worse like I want to use it to make Tom World better to create less you know more stress free work environments to help businesses grow and strive and like all these things it's like well then maybe I can maybe it's okay to want more money to do good and I think a lot of people also like I even have a hard time saying it now but I will make myself they even have a hard time saying like no I should do that it would be good for me to do that and I think I just want to give people permission to say that because I think a lot of people they have this icky feeling saying they want we money yeah why you know and by the way if you want money to live more comfortably do whatever the [ __ ] you want you know what I mean like this life is is way you make it right yeah but for me it's like I used to always associate people with money with people who were make the world worse and you know I had that realization years in where I was like well what if I could use all this money to make the world better and so that's always what's Driven me is I look at money as an approximation of the value I create so the more money I make the more value I've created and then if I can get more of it I can use I can trade my money for something that can then make the world even better you know it's like you can build hospitals and communities and like all these things and so a lot of people say they want to help the world but I don't think they understand what it takes to do that because if you're not using your money who are you using somebody else what's the price for that you know so I considered all of these things I've thought about it a lot and I just decided I was like I I trust myself with money I think I'm a good Steward of money I think that I have a very healthy balance of like what I spend money on myself and then like stockpiling to make these dreams and this Vision come true and I think more people that want to help people would benefit themselves from admitting that from practicing that and from saying it because I think the world needs more people that are selfless trying to make money but the thing is they have this weird association with like money being bad you know what I mean yeah absolutely and I think it's a yeah I think that people often misjudge kind of that intention completely with it and so because people are afraid that if I'm making money I'm a so assciated with the intention most people assume is behind it I'd rather not make money because I don't want to be associated in that way you I also feel like as you grow and if you've grown like in certain environment if you start making money it is also a feeling that you start giving others that you might not want to give others about you know where you are right now or where they are right now so I think we could do a whole podcast on our our weird yeah did you do like any money mindset work or you don't need to work on your [ __ ] mindset you need to just go make money yeah like I don't try to work on my mindset I try to do something which is like the best way to change your mindset is go make some money and use it for good yeah and then you will feel like chit how do you actually differentiate that when you say you know the or don't work on the mindset um but there's so much mindset kind of that goes into the things you do and how how you approach them can when is it B yes mindset which is basically mental masturbation we don't have to get to work because we're consuming all this mindset content and when is it useful can practically in that well I would say why do we do all the mindset work because we want to do something and we think that if we do all this work on our minds that we're going to be more likely to do something that leads to an outcome we want but we can do the thing that leads to the outcome without having thoughts that support it and without having feelings that support it and so I have found it's much faster to change your thoughts by changing your behavior than is to change your thoughts by changing your thoughts reason for it is because your brain uses evidence to formulate thoughts and feelings right past experiences evidence and so if I go create that evidence my mind is going to change a lot faster than if I try to manufacture it in my own thoughts and so for me I just think I'm like what's more efficient me just doing the thing I don't need to believe it's going to work I can completely like I play like limiting beliefs I just don't let them dictate my behavior and so like who's to say you know because to what degree does our mindset affect us right I can feel and I have felt I think a lot of people don't understand this incredibly anxious incredibly depressed incred all these things but if I still show up like somebody who's not what eventually I don't feel those those things and so at any time in my life when I felt depressed and when I felt anxious indulging in those feelings and acting as so has never helped me you know I say that as somebody who I would say that I've uh I have a deep relationship with anxiety and I've developed one over my lifespan and so I don't say this as a stranger to how these things can feel I know how it can feel like you're going to die like it literally you're just like I feel like I'm gonna die like I feel like it's I'm so terrified I'm so uncomfortable I can't function and I can still do the thing and I just trust myself that I know that now I'm like I have been terrified and I have been felt almost paralyzed and I've just been able to take that like one step in the direction I need to and that St changes my whole life a lot faster than going to therapy for six years that is sure so kind of summarizing leros formula to growth is best Ty hypothesis of what action we should be taking we take the action we make a quick recap and then take action again yeah I think it's if you exhibit winning behaviors you will win you don't need to feel like you're going to win and you don't even need to think you're going to win you just need to act like it and eventually your micro catch up and I have just listen this is not what works for everybody it's just what work tree it's like I have just found this little guy up in ear and this little guy in here not very helpful of it but getting to work and just like doing the hard thing I can do that and then this [ __ ] catches up and that's up I think it's so helpful because it's so practical right and not what really creates The Grove is is to doing I would love to ask you one more question before we wrap up and that is we have some parallels kind of in upbringing and I'm also ready to Goose with my dad he has helped me a lot on my growth journey and in business I kind of wanted to shout him out and I know that you have the same for your dad I actually had to cry when you had your Father's Day post because I was like oh I relate to this so much and I think this is so beautiful and you have described him on different occasions kind of as an anchor and as a mirror and that he has given you that perspective of wanting to be an anchor and a mirror for others so how do you translate that also into practical action being an anchor being a mirror to empower others to grow my dad's always done two things really well he has listened intently even when I know he didn't want to and even to people I know he didn't want to listen to and he has always made people feel hurt myself exited I think if there's any gift that he gave me it's showing me the power of being a great listener because if you're a bra listener people want to talk to you and they want to tell you things in my position that's advantageous mhm and I also think that if you're a great listener you can make people feel less alone so that's the first thing that he taught me I would say the second thing is that my dad did not punish me he only told me what he thought I was capable of even in the moments where I was just like a complete [ __ ] my dad still didn't speak ill of me you know he always tried to gear like just steer me in the right direction like but you could do these things and he never Li my perspective of what was possible for myself he always told me that anything was possible for myself as long as I was willing to put in the work and I think you repeat those things long enough to somebody you start to believe them and so you know I think he taught me what what you can do to make someone feel not alone which I think has been something that I have you know I I survey my team what do you think is my strength people say you're like one of the best listeners I've ever had and so I think that have the strength of listening and I also think that I am encouraging and I got both of those from him you know because when I look at my dad I just think he's just somebody I admire so much and like I would do anything for my dad like I I just want to make him happy you know what I mean I just want him to have a good life and he's such a good person and uh I just try to take what I can that I've learned from him and magnify it in a away that makes sense because I think having somebody who's reliable who listens who encourages you who isn't unpredictable like I think that's what makes a great leader and I think in that way he was my dad he was a leader and I took that as like that's how I can be a great leader for my te thank you so much for sharing of course where can people keep growing with you other than your podcast pH I think is uh my my personal know oh uh YouTube um anything else you would like to shout outly just social media like leaos on Instagram on YouTube and my podcast is called build and the other platforms I can't think of right thank you so much thank you [Music]