Stop Selling From Your Own Wallet | Alex Hormozi Sales Compilation

0:00Let's do like one thing. You one of my favorite things from you is these little TikToks or shorts I see where you're giving like a sales tip or a little sales trick or whatever. And um I would love for you I think most people probably you know most people who are listening to this just you know the bell curve of people listening to this probably have spent you know zero time trying to improve their sales and have not seen some of these things. So I want to give them the opportunity where they don't got to go click and find this random TikTok that I'm talking about in the ocean of TikTok. I want to role play a little bit. Um give us kind of like Um give us an example of normal like here's the default way people are doing something and then here's the rephrase or the reframe that has better results.

0:45Um I would love to to give get two minutes of learning sales from Alex. >> Sure. And just as a quick caveat to complete the loop from like 40 minutes ago you said like what was the book or training or whatever that So it's my belief if you look at Belfort, you look at Bradley, you look at Grant Cardone, some of the big sales trainers that are out there, almost all of them invariably have the same story which is I started selling and was the best guy on the team by a [ __ ] mile and then I tried to figure out what I was doing. And so I do think that some people naturally based on their childhood, their upbringings, their whatever are just have a higher proclivity for selling which carries

1:22>> Yeah, just a gift of gab and and and empathy. >> Yeah. And I think it carries over into how you recruit for selling too [clears throat] cuz we've built a lot of sales teams and I actually have a very short allowing for people to fail at sales cycle, probably much shorter than most people. And it's just because I've never had a killer salesperson who didn't do pretty well the first week. And so for me we you know we turn through this quickly but as a result of that the team is just killers and they know that. So it's I I like this quote from from Grant Cardone where he says, you know, my sales team is a dangerous place to work. And um I I love that. So in terms of sales stuff I think that I think people don't know how people are really freaked out about the idea of selling, right?

2:01And so I think the first reframe is like you're not selling, you're helping someone make a decision that's going to help themselves. And the the the the front part of that is that I do think that the number one predictor of good sales is conviction. And so fundamentally, you have one person who should believe in something, another person who does not believe it yet, and trust is the thing that transfers that conviction. So, if fundamentally there's the two things you need. You need trust and you need conviction. Most times sales people don't have 100% trust, I'm sorry, 100% conviction. And so, the also the idea of conviction as a binary is false. So, it's not like I believe it or I don't believe it. It was is to what extent do I believe it, right? And so, that's why like in terms of if I want to improve a sales team, I can do the drills, which we do, and that's like blocking and tackling. But the thing that really juices a sales team is hearing the testimonials of the people that they sold last week and what they're doing today and how their lives have changed. And so, I noticed this because on my sales team when we were in person, whenever I did weigh out day, which is when everyone finished their challenges and everybody was crying and so excited, I tried to stack as many sales appointments as I could while people were weighing out. And during those days we closed like 100% cuz people were like, "Dude, how can you not think this works? It's right there." And so, the thing is is like you can either trick yourself into having the right tone or you can train yourself. And I think that it's much easier to trick yourself into it by just simply believing because if you talk if you truly believe in the product, you will talk about it differently.

3:27And so, in terms of an understanding of selling, if you need to have conviction you need to have trust, trust is going to come from expertise and some level of rapport, right? And so, um, I think that overarchingly to help someone sell, we just have to ask the right questions to get someone to come to the conclusion on their own. And so, most sales conversations follow more or less the same framework if you know know you're doing. Otherwise, people are just chasing their tail and trying to chase a prospect to an outcome that the prospect doesn't know how Like, we've had this conversation a hundred times. They have only had it once. We should be the one knowing how this conversation's supposed to go, right? We should also come in with a massive advantage to how to have this conversation go the way we want it to cuz we DO IT ALL [ __ ] DAY, RIGHT?

4:08>> [laughter] >> And so, uh you know, big big front end pieces is like, why are they there? What's the problem? What have they done so far? Understanding where they failed. Seeing why our product is different from the things that they failed. Asking for permission to explain about the product. Explaining the product not in any way based on features, but only based on the experiences that they will have as a result of it and using analogies to explain those experiences, right? Um and then and then having a close uh at the end which the the Tik Tok I think that you you reference is like a no base close. And I think a lot of natural sales people do this anyways. Like if I want something, I'm going to be like, "Hey, can you do this for me?" I'm like, "Hey, would you mind?" And they say no.

4:51They don't I don't mind, right? Like there's natural communication dynamics that most people who naturally know how to persuade people or at least influence do that on their own. This is just retroactively looking at it and saying, "What did I do different Like, why is this different?" And um in terms of like overcoming cuz people are afraid of confrontation, right? That's what they're afraid of. And so, I believe that you can sell without ever having confrontation. And you can do that with what I like to call childlike curiosity. And so, if someone says, um "Well, my husband's not going to approve of that." I'm like, "Why wouldn't he?"

5:24What do you Like, "Huh, that's so interesting. Tell me more about that." Rather than like, "All right, let's Like, your husband's an asshole." Like, that's not going to work because in arguments no one wins, right? And so, be like, "Why Why would you think that? Cuz cuz I would think that he wants what's best for you, right?" Yeah, he wants what's best. Does he know you're struggling with this right now? Well, I mean, yeah, he knows I'm struggling with it. Okay, so he wants what's best for you, knows you're struggling with it. So, why do you think he would be opposed to solving something that that you're currently struggling with?

5:51Like just so I understand, would he be happier if you continue to struggle? Well, no. It's like, well, great. Then would you be opposed to moving forward today? And that way and hey, if you go home to your husband and you make a joke and you lighten the scenario and then you close it, right? And so, it's I think childlike curiosity is the immediate [clears throat] that you have to train because people get defensive. So, that is one thing that like fighters talk about when they're in the ring you breathe in too much, right? I don't know if you like if you've been in like sparring and stuff like you breathe in, you breathe too much, you hyperventilate. And so, the guys who've done it enough, they slow down their breathing because when they get things get intense, they can slow it down. And so, I think sales is a lot the same way where you're like your adrenaline kicks in, you start breathing faster, it's fight or flight. So, you got to be able to slow it down and be like, That's crazy. I wouldn't have thought that. Okay, tell me more about that. And like now you're interested and then they don't feel like you're combating them, they feel like you genuinely are interested and want to help them, which is what you should be doing because you should be selling them only if it makes sense. Let's let's let's do this. Okay, top line's 20k a month?

6:53>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay, 20k a month, 4k bottom line, right? >> Yep. >> Okay, got it. So, what what are you selling right now? >> So, we're selling client acquisition services. So, I'm doing church financial advisors. So, I'm doing a bunch of stuff. I'm doing uh paid meta ads for mostly deliverables and then I'm starting to notice that we're booking a lot of appointments for advisors, but they're not closing them. So, I'm starting to build in like the AI sales enablement and supporting them with like sales coaching calls to help them convert.

7:25>> Okay. I drink uh a shot of energy while you said who is the person that you're doing the client acquisition for uh for? >> Financial advisors. >> Financial advisors. Okay, got it. Okay, what's price point? >> Uh so, I'm charging 5k up front and then between 2K a month and 5K a month. And then I'm trying to figure out some sort of upside. >> Yeah, how are you getting them right now?

7:52Yeah, how are you getting how are you getting them right now? >> Uh, yeah, so I've done the interview method so I I emailed like a bunch of people, did some insights, did that first. We got one from cold call. And then I've had a couple of verbal yeses through paid Facebook ads but we haven't I haven't actually closed. >> Okay. How long you been doing this? >> Uh, I really started pushing this since October. >> Okay. So it's I'd like less than a year.

8:19Yeah. You're figuring out your first real channel. So I'll tell you right now for just about anyone who's doing less than a million dollars a year, it's almost always dramatic underestimation of the volume required. >> Okay. >> So right now you said you got one from cold calls, you got one you got a couple from interview method. Right? >> Yeah. Yeah, and then I've been moving to paid ads and then the leads slowly coming in but like the quality of the leads have been >> Of course. >> So I'll have a couple good calls and then a couple like terrible and I'm just trying to figure out

8:47>> Well dude, you're just measuring on too you're measuring on too small of a time horizon. I'm just like it's normal that you got good leads, you got bad leads. That's just part of it. >> All right. Okay. And so you don't you don't think it's the offer? Like you don't think like one of my usually guys should just ramp up the amount of volume in terms of new prospects? Cuz I've also done this uh 80 >> What's your close rate right now? Say it again.

9:14>> 10%. >> Oh, 10% is your close rate right now? >> Yeah. >> Now, of so the 10% though cuz I want to give good get good numbers here. Are all of that would mean that 10 out of 10 people that you made the offer to were qualified or there's 10 people you talked to and then you closed So okay, of qualified leads that you made an offer to, you closed one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now I don't know how good your sales skills are cuz sometimes like if you don't know how to you know, if you're just getting used to sales like that could be a thing it might not necessarily be the offer as much.

9:40Um but what's the incentive for someone to sign up right now? >> [snorts] >> Uh What's the incentive for them to sign up? Um like well I just drive them new traffic and they don't have to worry about like booking appointments. I just put appointments on their calendar. >> Heard. Do you have um do you have a VSL in your sales process right now? >> Yeah, but I don't I don't think it's well I don't think it's very like good. My background is in sales um not marketing and so I leaned on that heavily but yeah. It's just this is just a different product that I've been selling at at the lower ticket not high ticket.

10:16>> So I'm going to tell you something that I told one of my sales directors years ago which is that at this point right now especially if you came from a background of sales I want you to be thinking about how do I make sales easier rather than how do I get better at sales. So I think you have the right frame. Just just big picture, okay? Um so >> [sighs] >> I like I you need basically how many how many success stories you have? >> I have uh three but yeah, three.

10:44>> Okay. >> They're not like amazing though. They're okay. >> So I'm going to tell you something you probably don't want to hear but like this is what I would do if I were you. Hm? What are you going to say? >> I said do it. >> Fine. Okay. Leila probably doesn't want to say. Um I would probably see if I could work for people with a free trial plus penalty model which is actually a different one that's uh money model that's inside of the money models uh book and system. So when you go go like go watch that uh video training on it. Uh everyone who's watching this by the way it's free. Chill out. That's free for anybody. You don't have to buy a book.

11:16Um but uh the way it works is this is that you have someone put a card down and they still have to do all these behaviors and if they don't do the behaviors you bill them. >> Uh yeah. >> And the reason for that is like listen I will do this work for you and I will do it for free, uh because I need testimonials." Cuz that offer will get you way more sales, obviously. Cuz like you probably talked to all these you probably talked to 30 qualified leads, right? Something like that.

11:43>> Uh yeah, I talked to more than that. That's all. >> So, dude, I would rather you just like fill up your calendar, get way better at it, and get way more yeses, and then basically artificially, not artificially, realistically, jam your supply demand, so that you can barely even like work like can't even do anything else because you've got so much business that you're working with, and then you'll you'll it'll it'll shift your perspective and your behavior because you're going to be like, "Dude, I I have so many people who want to work with me right now." And then you'll learn more, you'll have way more testimonials, and then you'll have the pricing power that you need. Cuz I mean, it's realistic and it makes sense that it's taking you so many to close cuz you have no proof.

12:21>> Yeah. >> Right, you're leaning purely on sales. It's purely on sales. Like you just need the other stuff. >> Well, what are what are your thoughts on it? So, like I I think this is the future problem, but then my other thought around this was, well, if they can't convert the leads, then I'm going to, you know, bring on all this traffic for them to try to convert the leads, but they can't still can't convert it. So, then I'm out of cash flow, and I can't solve >> No, no, you're not No, they're going to pay for the ads, dude. They're going to pay for the ads. You're not you're not Like you're going to do the service for free.

12:48>> Right, right. But if they're going to pay for the ads, they still don't convert the the leads, right? Like then then I got to >> Yeah. >> I got to help them convert those those leads. >> This is a feature, not a bug. Um So, when you're an agency and you deal with small business owners, which is what you're dealing with, it's going to pretty much just suck. Um and I'll tell you that there's really only like let me just fast forward to what's going to happen. Can I just tell you your future for a second?

13:16So, what's going to happen is you are going to figure out how to start acquiring cus You're going to like So, in steps, you're going to follow this advice. You're then going to get enough proof. With enough proof, you're going to make a compelling VSL. With a compelling VSL, you're going to start being able to sell at higher prices. You're going to start increasing your prices. Because you know how to acquire customers, you're going to start selling more customers, and you're going to get excited cuz you're going to a disproportion of that is going to drop straight to the bottom line. But, when that starts happening, you're also going to start noticing that people are going to start falling off the back end. And then all of a sudden, your revenue's going to go up, and the CAC is going to start going up, too, over time. And then your margins are going to compress. And then you're going to be at between 1 and 3 million dollars a year, and you're going to be like, "Man, uh this sucks. Um I have this big churn factory." And then you'll call back and be like, "Hey, you know, I'm doing 1.8 million top line. I did 250,000 bottom line. Um I'm really not sure what to do with my, you know, agency right now cuz these guys, you know, if they kind of suck at business, and I have to try to explain to them I have to hold their hands and do all this work for them. Um and so I'm just trying to figure out a better way to run this business." And so then at that point, I would then say, "Okay, well, the issue is this, is that you have a poor avatar that sucks at business. And so either, option one, is that you build this thing from the front end, so that it's as low cost as humanly possible, so they don't churn ever, and you can do something in such a way that like at $300, $400 a month, uh you still run insane margins on it cuz your sticker is really good, and it costs you almost nothing to run.

14:30That's option one. That's the low-cost, high-volume model, and it works fine, but you have to build the business day one with that low-cost volume model so that you're you're dealing with these small business owners. You have to price at their worst month, not their best month. Now, the second scenario is that you have to go after higher You have to go after whales, right? You have to go up market. And those guys don't need your help closing cuz they know how to close, and they just need deals. They just need, you know, they need lead flow.

14:55Either of those are Yeah, either of those are the end state of where you're going to go. But, it often happens that you have to go through all those stages that I just outlined because you don't have the confidence yet, and you don't have the proof yet to go sell those whales. And so it's like you kind of need to get yourself to a business owner, you know, who's who's making a million, 2 million, whatever a year in revenue, so that then you can be like, "Wow, this sucks. Um I should build this differently." So, those are the two end states. It's either you're going to build this game one with that like super AI enabled, super automation enabled so that you can do this at low cost or you're going to say I got to go whale hunting. But the thing is it's very hard to sell whales with no proof.

15:32>> [snorts] >> But those are the two end states of actually what makes this business work. >> Okay, so is there is there a world where I I don't even go after this market and I I change the >> No, everything you're good. Everything I just described is true of anyone who does client acquisition for any business. >> Okay. >> It's a like what happens is if you're good at marketing and sales you very quickly deal with people who just aren't they're only good at one element of it, right? They're not good at some component which is why they're hiring you but it's kind of this catch-22. So you end up eating up more and more of their business or you have to go up up market. And so you either have to make it so cheap that you don't care if they turn because there's so many of them and it costs you nothing or you actually price it in a way that you can have charge a premium but you can only do that with people who can afford it which is up market. So if you look at the biggest agencies in the world which is basically what you are you either got to go like you know super cheap, super high volume or premium whales, Ogilvy, you know what I mean?

16:32Um and some of these bigger Yeah, so yeah, but I think you got to go through this this crap period but you got to know that the the purpose of this crap period is to get proof so that you can move up market or down market depending on you. Either way it's up to you. >> Yeah, okay. >> Cool? >> All right, thanks. >> All right, appreciate it man. Thanks. >> Stop selling from your own wallet. Especially if you're one of the people who you know you're in that in that $2 category, right? You're that bottom 50% right now. I get it. I've been there.

16:58You have to forever imagine this is a gift forever imagine that everyone is rich. So here's the reality that will shock you. That top 10% top 10% of Americans have million dollar plus net worth. One in 10 people. One in 10 people. Million dollar net worth. They've got the money. You just aren't selling them something that they want. And you might even be, and this happens a lot, especially for newer business owners, you might even be too cheap for them to even believe that you're good. Like, we had a company that uh that was in the health space a while back.

17:29And looking at all the research, it was a doctor and all the stuff, and I just fundamentally believed that they were mispriced. And so, what I did was I raised I wanted to raise the price by double. He fought me back and forth forever, and I have I was able to finally get a 50% price raise through. But guess what happened? We raised the price by 50%. That's a lot. What do you think it did to the close rates? They went up. They were so cheap compared to the promise and what they were delivering that people didn't even believe that it worked. And so, some of you guys are so cheap because you're selling out of your own wallet, you're selling based on what your friends and family who might also be in that $2 bottom 50% uh are telling you. But the Why would you listen to the people who don't have money on how to get money? They don't know where it is. They don't know how to get it. And more specifically, they don't know how to serve the people who've got it.

18:21So, that's the first thing. The second thing is that if you're going to do this, listen to me on this. Whatever your upsell is, 5 to 10x the price. And then just make sure it's something that you'd be happy to deliver for 5 to 10 times the price. Sometimes I'll get pushback from people who are like, "Ah, that would that would be so much work." And I'm like, "Cool. We have value and we have price. Move one of them. Either do less or charge more." I would encourage you to just charge more.

18:49Right? And so, if I were to say, "Hey, I want you to 10 times the current price of your upsell, what would you do that would absolutely blow people away? How much does it actually cost you? When you look at the cost compared to that 10 times bigger price with a zero on the end of whatever your core offer is, you might find it's like, "Actually, it's only like, you know, 5% of that price." It's like, "Right. Really high margin." So, as long as you're happy making more money serving fewer people, go do that.

19:16The third one is that you should expect only one in five or one in 10 people to say yes. Expect more no's. And this is the sweet spot of making money, right? The sweet spot isn't the most yes's, it's the most money. And that is never with the most yes's. So, if you pitch your 10 times bigger price to this bottom 50%, none of them are going to say yes. And you're going to mistakenly believe that this is a bad idea. But the route is that you're just not talking to the people who have the money. And so, you should expect that if you have a representative amount of people that you speak with, one in 10, maybe even one in 100, is the is the person who is the correct avatar. And for that person, you might also find they'll just say like, "Yeah, that sounds good." You'll be like, "Oh my god." And I only say this as somebody who's had it happen for the first time. You're like, "I can't even believe this is possible. I can't believe this person would give me this much money." It's cuz to them, it's not that much money. It's only that much money to you because you still live here.

20:09If you sell to rich people long enough, they will make you one of them. And so, with your upsell, make it crazy. And this is called an anchor for a reason, right? If no one buys it, no big deal. Or most don't, no big deal. But the good news is that it'll still help you sell the rest of everyone else at a higher percentage and even at a higher rate because it'll look like a good deal in comparison.

20:34And I said this before, but I'll say this again. The next reason is the only thing worse than selling a thousand dollar thing to a hundred dollar buyer is selling a hundred dollar thing to a thousand dollar buyer. In the first, you lose a hundred bucks. In the second, you lose nine hundred. And not only that, that nine hundred is probably disproportionately profit. And this is what no one understands. This is why most businesses don't make money. They just try and sell to these people who are the biggest pain in the butt. And the thing is is you see so many of them that you're like, "Oh, this must be how it works." No, it's not how it works. It's just how you're working.

21:04This is how the average business works, which is why the average business doesn't make money. They don't go to the where the money's at. The next reason is you have to think about absolute profit rather than relative profit, and you'll be blown away. So, a single person paying $10,000 for something that cost $2,000. A single person, right? One. Right?

21:27Buying a $10,000 thing that cost $2,000 is the same as 400 people buying a $50 thing that cost $25. These are the same. So, do not underestimate the power of large prices and small

21:51>> Now, when I watch you, bro, your stuff, it's so it makes so much sense, and it's so digestible. You go to hear a lot of sales trainers, and it all sounds the same. My first question is this, where the did you study sales, bro? >> Like, who was it from? Where did Where did it start? Who did you study >> Was it Brian Tracy? Where did you learn from? >> So, really interesting. Um I actually only learned about the sales world after I'd already done 4,000 sales. >> What? >> And so, I learned And that was in gym launch. That was in my gyms. So, I started as a brick and mortar gym owner. >> Mhm.

22:17>> And so, I remember the first time I was like, it's actually funny cuz I would graduate from college, and one of my dad's friends was like, "Hey, you should work at my office." He was a a wealth manager. Yeah. And he was like, "You'd work in sales." And I was like, "I'm not a salesman. I'm an academic, you know, I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a student." And he was like, "All right, man, whatever." And so, I I end up getting into fitness, and then as soon as I opened my doors, I was like, "Shoot, how am I going to get money?" I was like, "I got to get these strangers to give me money." And then I guess that's when I started realizing I had to sell. And so, um all of the sales that I learned was literally face-to-face in person. So, I was very fortunate that I uh learned how to run Facebook ads in 2013. So, really, really early to Facebook ads. And so, I was able to get leads really cheap. And so, for basically like 4 or 5 years, I took 20 in-person consults a day.

23:01Um and so, I got a lot of reps. And so, what ended up happening as I started developing my my team is that I had more and more locations and I closed at such a high percentage, also just cuz I got more reps than anybody else there, that they would just start stacking they would stack like a week's worth of sales for me. And I would go to like La Habra one day and do 25 sales. And then I would go to my, you know, La Mirada location and do 25 sales. Then I go to Huntington Beach and I do another 25 sales. And so, >> And you weren't training at this time. You were just doing them. Just doing the reps. Just learning.

23:27>> Yeah, just selling. Yeah, just selling. >> weren't you weren't like listening to sales training or anything like that. >> even know that world existed. I didn't know what the whole world existed at all. I only found out about it when I wanted to scale my sales team. So, I had six gyms, I sold those, and then I started doing gym turnarounds. So, I started flying cuz I was really good at marketing and sales for the gyms. So, I was like, man, I would fill my gyms up so fast that I was like, I honestly just need gyms to fill up so I can do more sales. >> Right. >> And so, then it was like, well, I'll just find empty gyms and say, "Hey, let me sit at the front door. I'll fill it up." And that way I had all this capacity I could sell into. And we would get 30 to one on our ad spend. And so, I'd spend a grand or I'd spend 10 grand and make a lot of money in 30 days. And so, I would average about 100 grand in cash collected in 21 days of me just sitting at the front of a gym. And I did 33 turnarounds over 2 years just basically doing that model. And so, it was just like Alex with a fold-out table and pens and contracts and I would just hold court. And I would set as many of the point I'd set three appointments an hour or every 30 minutes.

24:26And, you know, two out of three would show and sometimes three out of three would show and sometimes one out of three would show and I would just do the same pitch over and over and over again. And so, um, I'm sure that you like once you start you start breathing the script more than you start knowing it and then I think you start realizing how people work. And my What was interesting is that the sales training that I had when I started doing the turnarounds cuz then I was like, you know what? If I can do one of these, if I had 10 guys, then we could do 10 turnarounds a month. Like that'd be crazy. And so, I scaled the sales team up to eight guys at the time.

24:54And each of those guys was now taking 20 appointments a day at different gyms across the country. >> Got it. >> And the sales training that I had for those guys was like 60 minutes. The whole thing. >> Right. >> And it was because it wasn't like I was trying to sell sales training. I just needed them to close. And so it was just like When the person walks in the door, this is what you say. You say, "Hey, you want to see the world's shortest tour?" And then you walk into the gym and you turn around because they don't care about the tour anyways and they get a laugh and then you're like, "Awesome. So, what brought you in today? What's the thing you're struggling with?" And so what happened is is like right off the bat if someone said something like, "Oh, you know, I just want to find out more information."

25:31I'm like, "Are you just opting in a lot of different stuff, getting information or trying to find you know, solve a problem?" I was like, "I'm assuming you're just not trying to get information for lots of things." They're like, "Oh, well, you know, I'm trying The thing is if you don't confront that, then later they're like, "Well, I just wanted to find out." But if you get them to admit the problem, then it's like we can move forward in the sale. And so basically at every one of the six or seven key questions that we had in the sale, it's like here are the four or five offshoots that people are going to throw at you that we need to make sure that we handle. >> Right. >> you mean offshoots, you mean objections? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Got it.

25:56>> And so I just would have make sure that people were handling handling those things because it's like we have had this one conversation more times than anyone else has. There is no way they should be able to say anything that we have not heard before. So, you have no excuse to be unprepared for anything that Suzy says when she comes in the door. She's going to say she has to think about it. She's not sure if these workouts are right for her. What if it doesn't work for her body type? She has low thyroid. She has to talk to her husband. She has to look at a couple other gyms. She wants to have time to make the decision. She doesn't have the car she wants to use. It's a little bit too much.

26:24>> Like >> There's not that many things, right? There's not that many things that she's going to bring up. And so we just need to know how we can thoughtfully walk through that without seeming like hardcore sales. And so like my whole objective was to teach people to close, not to sell sales training. And so all the stuff that I've had that I talk about now is just the stuff that I used to train my team. >> Got it. >> And so right now a lot of our sales trainings are actually very, very short and most of the effort like if we buy a company. So, we just we just um bought a company and we we added a 40 person sales team from zero to 40 people in 90 days taking basically a central call. So that that company had an automated sales process in the front end selling like kind of an e-commerce thing and I was like man if we just called all these people and just sold them something else it would probably make us more money and it did. And so the idea was like okay well how do we look at the script and then how do we just compress it and compress it and compress it and just make it as short as possible.

27:15And so we try to delete more than anything else that we possibly can because at least in my belief there's this tiny clip from Y Combinator where the founder of Basecamp talks about when he sold shoes. You know if I tell the story I think it's really cool. So he says hey when I sold shoes you know the the shoe reps from Wilson it was a tennis store Wilson and and Nike or whatever would come and they'd say hey you know these are the new graphite bottom rubber extra light aerosol and they tell them all the specs about the shoe. He's like but you know how people how people actually buy shoes? He's like they come in they'd put the shoe on they'd walk back and forth for a little bit and then do this little bouncy thing and then they kind of like look at their shoe in the mirror and then they'd come to me and they'd ask me how much it was. He's like so all they really want to know is it comfortable does it look good and can I afford it? Right. And that was it and I found that for the most part in sales like there's not a ton of things that actually drive the purchase and most of the time sales people talk themselves out of sales rather than just closing.

28:09And we study this because we we do a lot of analytics on the sales teams that we have across all the portfolios. You I have this belief that every time you make a statement you give something give the other person something to disagree with. And so you're like smoke if you just simply ask questions. Even when somebody has an objection right and they say hey you know like I'll give you the gym example. It's like well are your trainers certified? I'd be like well what what certification you're looking for? And then they'd be like uh cuz they don't know right they just think they have to ask that question to seem to seem like an informed consumer.

28:39And so we're like well what would you what would what would the certification accomplish for you? And so just literally asking questions about their objection usually would just side step the objection more times than not. >> Right. >> And so that's what I try and train the guys is like if you say nothing, there's nothing anyone can disagree with you on. And we just cuz they will only agree with themselves. We can't sell them. They have to agree. Like they have to they have to say, you know what, this makes sense. >> Mhm. >> And so we get them to say that by asking them the question. >> Mhm. >> And that's that's pretty much the methodology that we've worked with and you know, I I taught something that I call the closer framework for a very long time because it's just simple and because people can learn it. And so like we have a big chain of of teeth whitening studios.

29:15I have to teach someone who makes $10 an hour to sell a $1,000 thing and sell like many of them every day. So how do I do that? Like that's the challenge that I like to take on is like how can I make this process so easy? Cuz in my opinion, the higher ticket sales most of the time sales training is very vague because the people who do the training and I know we're going to talk about this don't know what they're doing at all. >> But I believe that if you can really systematize the process, anyone can sell. And they just follow kind of color by numbers.

29:45And so the closer framework is simply clarify why someone's there. Label them with a problem that you can solve. Overview their past experiences. Sell the vacation, which I usually have as three main points. Almost every pitch I had it's like, okay, you want this, this, and this. You want fitness, nutrition, and accountability. You want the leads to be timely, exclusive, and whatever. >> So when you mean the vacation, it's like their dream. >> Yes. >> What they want. Got it. >> it's and the the acr- that that little story comes from uh a lot of times people sell the plane flight, not the vacation. They're like, you got to go through TSA. You got to bring your bags.

30:11And this is what we're going to do on the flight and here's the check. It's like, no, no, no. >> Yeah. >> No one cares. They want to talk about Maui. We'll talk about the vacation. Like let's talk about that. Sell the vacation. And then E is explain why they're concerned and R is reinforce the decision. >> Mhm. >> So that's the closer framework. That way, you know, someone's like, okay, I'll do it. And then it's like, now this was a great decision. Here are the next steps. And let's walk you through what it's going to be like to accomplish this and let me tell you exactly what happens next. Because that's where people get cold feet, they back out, you get chargebacks, you get refunds, things like that. It's like, we need to have a clear handshake between the sale and whatever the next step they have to do and it's just a smooth process.

30:42>> Right. And so we link those. >> You're cuz I think the same way where you don't need the most craziest closing line to close somebody because it I think it starts in the beginning. To me, I think you can [ __ ] everything up within the first 5 seconds of the beginning. And when people have these I was we were just on a show like 10 minutes ago. He's like, man, you know, what's the secret closing line? And I never even thought of sales like that because I said at the end of I've never used some wicked closing line where I turn back to my guys in the office I'm like, did you [ __ ] use that [laughter] line?

31:09And I'm like the you know, I'm like the in your face sales guy, you know, very very outgoing, but I never had one line that closed somebody and it's always been so easy towards the end because it's everything leading up to the sale where you shouldn't even try to attempt for the close unless you intuitively know that you have the close. >> Dude, I say that all the time is like lawyers don't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. I'm like, I don't ask for the close unless I know they're going to say yes. And so like the more I think that's where that's where I do think some pattern recognition with sales like you're like, I don't think they're there yet. You know what I mean? Like, what's what else are you concerned about? Like what are you really worried about right now? And I think that's where like the the asking genuine questions. And I think one of the things that I got from Layla is keeping the human first. I know that sounds kind of soft, but like actually having that as the frame because I genuinely believe the person who cares more about the prospect wins. And so like if they care basically in that moment, if you care more about them than they do over the long term, you will be able to convince them because you actually are putting their needs first.

32:00And that also means that sometimes and I tell my guys this, if you get to the end of the conversation you really don't think it's the best thing for them to do, >> push away. >> Yeah, and that's a successful sale for me. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> My point the end point of a sale for me is a decision, not a sale. That's how I see it. And that way my guys can win on every single conversation. I just want to get to a decision a decision one way or another. >> I sell restaurant operations consulting to restaurants to restaurant owners.

32:25We do about we're on track to do about 3.2 million this year. We I want to hit 10 by the end of the year. What stopped me is my Yeah. I'm on track. Give me some hope here, please. >> [laughter] >> Uh And what's stopping us is this is a sales process all the way from messaging. >> Do you have demand? >> Yes. >> Do you have more demand than you can handle?

32:49>> We have more demand that we can unlock. >> Okay. Do you have $10 million of demand you can unlock? >> I absolutely think so. 100%. And but yeah, the problem is unlocking it. Like I tell people on my team all the time like we have the demand, we have the attention, the shares, the the saves, the comments, all that stuff is all there. But it's a messaging I think is a problem and and and the marketing and then the sales process. Like that's that's the problem. The price point. You know, you guys gave me a lot of hope because you're saying hey restaurant or gym gym owners make like 32,000 a year.

33:21Our product is this much but we have this this this tactic. >> Yeah. You have the same problem, right? Restaurant owners small margins. >> Yeah. So that's what's stopping us. >> Okay. Those four things. So um So you said your messaging is off. >> Yes. >> How do you how do you know that? >> Because uh >> You guys want to hear a really good framework for solving problems?

33:45So I've also done a lot of this and so What does that mean? How do you know that? Why should I care? Logic, evidence, utility. So you said something like our messaging is off.

34:34What does messaging mean? So, this is why I define terms all the >> the time. People don't know what I'm I'm selling, right? They They want something from me, so they're booking a call, but they have no idea what I'm offering or how they can execute it. >> Okay, so when I would say So, that's what that's what it means. I would then say, "How do you know that?" So, the way that you would answer that question would be some sort of quantitative measure, which would be like uh 80% of our calls are unqualified.

35:02That would be a way to answer that question. >> And then I would ask the question, "Why do I care?" Now, you might say, "Well, I think if we could sell the other 80%, then we'd make more money." I would then ask like, "Well, is it a sales constraint? Can we just kick all these people off the counter and fill it up with with the 20% for the rest of it?" Like, then we we kind of have the discussion. Okay, so you're saying messaging is off, so um are people who are coming on the call unqualified? >> No, they're qualified for the most part, but they're they're like they don't know what we offer, so the sales process becomes much more challenging because they're coming in thinking like, "Do you come into my restaurant? How How does this work, right?"

35:35>> Yeah. >> So, we have to like bridge that gap. >> working with us after this? >> I I'm I'm trying to, yeah. >> You should. You should. Like, this is a sales motion. Like, we do this in our [ __ ] sleep. So, um it will not make any difference in my life, I promise. But >> difference in my life. >> You're >> [laughter] >> There you go. So, so fundamentally, you've got your demand that's coming in, right? This is an eyeball. It's really ugly. Um but basically, what we have to do is take them through indoctrination process prior, um which will probably create some sort of video sales letter here. We can help you with that in terms of the scripting.

36:06And then the questions themselves should reverse engineer the sale. So, I'll give you guys a little tidbit. Um any you guys register for the book launch that's coming up? >> Thank you. >> Did anyone notice a little checkbox on the opt-in that said like, "I want a VIP ticket" or something like that? Okay. So, that created an absolute 16% increase in sales. The checkbox did nothing. They just checked but there's it it it changed nothing about the process. You didn't see a different page. It's just if you checked off a box saying you wanted a VIP ticket, you were more likely to then on the next page when we said, "Want to be a VIP?"

36:40buy the VIP thing. And so the pre-framing is so powerful that the questions that you ask have absolutely a huge um effect on the likelihood of someone taking the purchase when they get the option. Same thing with the VSL. For a lot of you guys, having some sort of video sales letter or information, like if you're getting too much traffic, which it sounds like you are cuz I'm guessing your organic is your primary way. >> Yes. >> Right. So you have all this traffic that's coming in. You need a filtering function that qualifies in a good way cuz there's bad there's bad friction, which is like I could put a wall up and no one can get through or like my page is really slow. That just gets everybody turned off.

37:15Good friction gets bad people away and good people in, right? And so having qualifications, which I'll give you guys a rule of thumb that has yet to be proven wrong in my history, the more good friction you add, the more money you make and the more expensive the contacts. Meaning if you run ads, for example, to get sales calls, if I say this thing costs $10,000 and you have to have cured cancer in order to get it, my cost per call will go up, but my my ROAS will go up even more. So I might double my cost per offer from 200 to 500, but my my return might go from 3x to 6x, even though I'm more than double my cost per call. But with the the secret uh sneaky one is that your sales efficiency will double or triple.

38:00And so that means that you can close way more deals with a smaller team, which creates more operate less operational drag, allows you to scale easier. So to answer your question, you had four issues. One you said was messaging. One is going to be the sales motion itself, which is thinking a ladder into pricing. Right, what was the fourth one? Or is that just that? >> Yeah, the fourth one was, you know, you you have like a you guys had like a with the with the gym owners, right? It was like like here's the here's how we get them >> You need a fast cash play. Yeah.

38:24>> So, um fundamentally, most fast cash plays operate off of existing resources. So, most business owners have dead contacts, old customers, some sort of list, um or even just an existing social media profile that has some level of followers. And so, basically, a lot of business owners don't allocate resources where they could get the highest return. This is fundamentally why they don't grow. Like if somebody else were taking over a business and then all of a sudden the business grows, it's cuz the guy who was running it isn't allocating attention and resources well, right? And so, that means that they have resources that are un- untapped or underutilized that you can help them appropriately utilize quickly uh so that they can make the cash to pay you.

39:07And so, that would be just a campaign that you would probably test out really early um with, you know, a handful of beta users, and then you would include that as basically the first part of the onboarding. And so, by doing that, it's like you can make the sale and then immediately pay for yourself within the first 30 days, which is like always my goal so that I always want to operate off of like found money. Like I never want someone to pay me money I haven't already made you. And I've pretty much operated that way my whole life.

39:32>> I'm just curious. So, the problem we have is that we give them the blueprint, we build it out for them, one-on-one calls. In the first month, we really try to do that, right? To give them the results so they get they get bought in and all that good stuff, but they don't take action. And that's the biggest problem we have. We're like >> That's going to be an incentive thing, carrot and stick in terms of how you incentivize that. >> Okay. >> Like you can give bonuses or discounts that they unlock if they take that quasi action. You can make guarantees contingent on three actions. There's a bunch of things you can do to structure that initial offer that, again, will factor into the application, the sales motion, and then ultimately what you take as the first kind of activation point within the business.

40:04>> So, take that fast cash and then tie it to >> Yes. >> you have to do these things. >> Yes. And all of that gets reversed all the way to the front. >> And just out of curiosity, do you actually enforce that? Is there a way to enforce it or you just kind of 100%? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Cuz that's the hard part we're we're seeing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I mean state the facts and tell the truth. Be up front. >> Okay, cool. No, 100%. Thank you. >> They're probably the three most important things that you need to figure out, which is you need to figure out who you sell to, you need to figure out how much you're going to charge them, figure out how you're going to get them. And so, right now if you have if you have a product that already has a clear use case for enterprise, then I would probably go whale hunting rather than go minnow hunting.

40:40>> Mhm. >> Right? And so, if that's the who, the price is going to going to be relatively self-explanatory, which is you're going to get into the conversation with them and just say the biggest number you can possibly think of. >> Okay. >> And just see how how they react. You can always go down, can't go up. >> Right. >> Right? And so, seriously, big no for everybody. Just say the biggest number you can think of cuz what the worst worst feeling in the world is when you're like, "250 grand."

41:07They're like, "Okay." And you're like, >> [laughter] >> "I could have got 500 on that." You know what I mean? And so, that's the who, that's the price, and in terms of the advertising method, you guys have background, you know people that have been in those in those in those businesses, and they do have typically long sales cycles that you're probably accustomed to. I think the issue that you've had with like these one-off contracts and all the contingencies and terms is simply cuz you don't care for what you're charging.

41:35So, at what price would you be like, "Oh, I don't care. Yeah, I'll agree to all that stuff." And so, I think yeah, fundamentally from a strategic perspective, it's a pricing issue, which then kind of ladders down to, "Okay, who can afford the price that I want to do it?" And then what's the friction that's associated with selling to those types of customers? Well, it's not worth it for 10 grand a month. It's worth it for a million a year. >> Right. >> And I think you're honestly like one deal away from fixing our cash flow. >> I think so, too. >> Okay, no, you're right. >> Thank you. >> Well, appreciate it. How can how can we help? We got we got we got a minute or two. Let's do it. What How can we help?

42:03>> Yeah, let's do it. So, I'm a closer. I'm going to bore you with that, but I'm really trying to help. I work for an offer right now, and their show rate is terrible, and uh really great It's honestly the best offer I've ever worked for. Um >> Well, yeah, it hasn't worked for us, though. >> [laughter] >> Dude, you know, I just had a group reach out to me and say, "Hey, we're we're just looking for a closer." And I was like, "I don't really trust you." >> [laughter] >> It's like like they do it themselves, right? Um

42:29>> Uh that's actually correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you know how it is. >> Yeah, I do. >> But yeah, this offer's great. Uh they scale plumbers, and and they're so good, and I just have so much conviction for it. >> Perfect. >> Their offer. >> Yeah. Who doesn't need sales? >> And uh our close rate is great, but I I mean, you obviously have closed way more than me, and you know that if the close rate is too high, there's a problem. >> Yeah. >> Um and part of that is our closer or excuse me, our show rate is is 20%, and uh our close rate is is insane. So, you know, we get three calls a week, and we'll close two out of three. We'll get uh five calls a week, we'll close three out of five or four out of five. But

43:03>> Yeah, you mean they actually pick up? Is that what you're saying? Not scheduled. >> Y- Yes, exactly. And um >> Yeah, couple things. >> I don't know what to talk about it, and and I'm an amateur, and and I'm not good at sales if it's not a close. >> No, you're good. So, there's there's probably a handful of issues that are actually happening prior to. So, like sometimes it's an uphill battle Like if you're like, "Dude, I'm calling the lead immediately. I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm calling them 10 times, you know, within the first 3 days, and I'm calling them twice in the first 5 minutes." Like you're doing all the like the fundamentals, like the basics, right? If you're doing that stuff and you're still not seeing increases in in show rates, then it's usually things that are happening prior to the scheduling.

43:40>> Okay. So, that means you want to be a sales guy. >> Exactly. Right, so basically there's not there's insufficient friction likely in the funnel. Um and so as a result, it basically if you remove too much friction, then what ends up happening is that like it's so easy to book a call that you actually have fewer total shows, and so your metrics like you it's kind of getting into the the vanity metrics game of like, "Look, we got 100 calls scheduled." It's like, "Dude, it doesn't matter." Like we only care who shows, right? >> Yeah.

44:03>> And so, being willing to say, "Well, we doubled our cost per booking, but our show rate because you're at 20%. It's like our show rate went from 20 to 60. So we tripled our show rate but we doubled our cost which is still a 50% increase. Right? >> Yeah. Okay. >> So I would look at the application number one. I would also look at um like so is it is it just straight is it just straight to booking or how's the I don't I can't see the funnel but like is that the like how does it work in there?

44:29>> Bro, I can't say that. I mean, the funnel's changed two months in the last couple months. So as at the exact moment the funnel is for um like an offer or promotion we're running and then it's also just like hey, if you want to scale up, book a call. Um and then it's very basic info. Uh you know, name, email, how many people are working in your company, what's your revenue and then and then it just goes straight to hey, you know, don't miss your call. And it's basically a 10-second video of the owner going hey, this is this changed your life and that's it.

44:58>> Oh, that's the that's the VSL? >> Yeah, basically. >> No, no, no. Did you need No, you need like a five or seven-minute VSL. Uh so the proof checklist which is tell your owner to go by that but donate some books by the end of the day. But the proof checklist basically help you script out the the VSL cuz you have to right now like the the symptoms you're expressing are things that are I mean, all of this is in the sales system. So you've got the lead nurture process and you've got the proof checklist. Both of those things are the things that are missing which is why you're having such a few show rate or the show rate's so low.

45:29The fact that your closing is great but I would bet you that if you put in that basically more proof on the funnel and the VSL itself which typically the way it's going to be is going to have proof promise plan right at the beginning of the VSL. So like you know, how do you know we're good? What are sorry, like what's the promise? What's the plan of how we're going to help you do it? And then what's proof that I know that you're legit? And then we walk through the four-step belief breaking which is like okay, what are the four things that people uh you know, struggle with or like why they why they object. Right? And so it's like belief one, two, three, four and then we we order this and you'll be able to watch this live stream later, so I'll just talk fast. Uh so so it's it's it's what they believe, why they're wrong, what's right, and then proof. All right, and then that stack of that four steps you do four times, so it's basically 16 pieces uh to that VSL, and then you CTA at the end whichever whatever the next step is, which is like, "Hey, text us back, you know, this thing." And then when that person texts you, right, then what we want to do is personalize the the road map that we're going to show them so that they're like, "Oh, they actually did some work for me ahead of time, right?" It's just like I mean just like plumbing it's like, "Oh, we actually, you know, I looked I pulled up Google Maps and it looks like, you know, your home was built in 1971. They were usually using these types of pipes at that point." Um and so I'm going to bring the stuff that's actually going to be able to fix this, so I may be able to do this even faster for you. They're like, "Oh, wow, that was impressive." So like now the question of you not showing up or that like I'm using a home services example, but like the question like vanishes, right? So they're like, "Oh, wow, they like really understand my business." And so I would, if I were you, the salesman, we have to install those two playbooks, but in addition to that, I would, if I'm you, I would basically do little mini AI research, Zapier or make.com automation, whatever, uh to get a full breakdown of that business, the reviews they have, what people say, you know, some of the employees at the business at like that like imagine like, "Hey, so I know Tom and, you know, Gerald work for you. Um do you have any issues with the like holy shit?" Like it's like you want to blow them away, but with automation and AI now you like you can do that really really well. All right, I got to call the next person. Okay. Bye. I got So that helped?

47:29All right, man. Nice to meet you, too. Appreciate you. >> Yeah. Yeah, cheers. Yeah, bye-bye. >> All right, bye. Alex, how do you make nothing happen feel valuable? Okay? Um I help a uh got it. All right, I I I already know where this is going. This will be good, though. Okay, so um I help run a 20-year-old plus MSP, so master service provider, IT consulting, cybersecurity and support with about 500 minutes users, now specialized in specific professional services niches.

47:55We When we do our job perfectly, there's no outage, breach, email fraud, etc. Prospects therefore compare providers uh by price per user because the value's invisible until something breaks. We can also not responsibly guarantee no breach because no employees, vendors, third parties remain outside of our control. How would you build a grand slam offer and risk reversal for this type of prevention business? So, let me reframe this for you for a second.

48:20You sell in I mean, it's a version of insurance, which is like obviously you're selling core services that you're providing, but you need to focus on the don't. So, what I mean is you're saying when we do our jobs perfectly, nothing happens, right? When an airplane does its job perfectly, everything arrives on time and, you know, high five, no one cares. But if I wanted to sell someone on why they should get on my plane, I'm going to talk about what is the chance that this thing goes down?

48:51And also, what are the other inconveniences? So, like a plane either lands or doesn't land. Either you die, right? Or you get there, right? But the thing is is that there's other variables of that journey, right? There's like how good is the service? There's uh was it delayed? Did it start on time? Was I able to get there faster, right? There are other variables that'll still affect I mean, think about it right now. You have probably have a favorite airline, and you probably have an airline you hate. Both of them get you to your destination. What are the differences? Fundamentally, we're getting to the value equation. And so, we have to think we have to decouple the elements of value that you have in your master service, you know, in your business. And so, one, if I were selling this, I would focus on how much does it actually cost you for an outage?

49:30Now, to your point of I can't guarantee no outages, fine, but we can still create a guarantee. We just have to manage our risk and our conditions. So, if we had an unconditional guarantee, that might be tough. Now, we could have an unconditional guarantee that has limited in terms of its scope, which is functionally reverse insurance for yourself. And so, you say, "I'm willing to take on this risk that if we go down in service, you get that month free.

49:55Now, you do the math because if you close twice as many customers and you lose 1 month from every third customer, the math maths. And so it's a controlled burn. It's a controlled risk that we're willing to take. The more aggressive you are with it, the more you'll be able to win business knowing your risk tolerances. Now, you can make that conditional in that they follow your best practices, XYZ, the same way insurance has conditions, right? Like you have life insurance unless you kill yourself. Don't get life insurance anymore, right?

50:20There's conditions for the risk. There's conditions for the guarantee. And so if we want to make your thing more valuable, one, let's talk about the big risks. Two, let's guarantee around it responsibly. Number three, I want to talk about speed to the greatest degree possible, the speed within and speed delays. I want to talk about ease and sacrifice.

50:44What are all the things that they um have to do that they don't want to do uh that I save them from doing by doing my thing. And then ease, how many things do they get to do that they want to do that otherwise they wouldn't be able to do without me. And so all of these things get aggregated together into something that is ideally to get you out of commoditized pricing. The reason the first chapter in the book is that you are selling commodity is cuz the issue that you're dealing with right now. And so you are not selling nothing happened.

51:13I think if I could just change one thing about your your your your perspective on this is that's not what you're selling. You're selling the the plane lands on time. I don't want to sell that nothing bad happened. I want to sell that something good happens and then guarantee around something bad happening responsibly and then improve every other component of my service so that I can still, even with two airplanes flying to the same destination, and um still make my air airline more valuable. >> I am a real estate wholesaler. >> Okay.

51:37>> Um we're currently averaging about $450,000 a month >> Okay. >> in revenue. I would like to be at a million. >> That's your spread? That's what you're making, or that's like house volume? >> Uh that's gross. >> Okay. So, what's your what's what's your spread on that? What's your take on that? >> So, we're at 40%. So, right around 250, 240. >> Interesting.

52:01Weird. That's high. What kind of What are you wholesaling? >> [laughter] >> All right. So, here's the >> You've heard of brothels. >> [laughter] >> So, imagine a brothel, but now it's all midgets. Okay, keep going. You're good. >> Okay, but here's the challenge we run into. So, we're currently at 450 average, yeah? We've had 700k months this year already.

52:28>> Okay. >> The challenge is every time we get to those numbers, and I try to Hey, you know what? It's time to ramp up. Uh for some reason, we tend to tank to, you know, 200, 250. >> Okay. >> Um I'm sick I I have cause to believe it's the sales team. >> And just that's right. >> You know, they have those power months where everyone, you know, takes home 20, 30 grand. >> Uh-huh. >> And then the month after it's like >> Are they pure commission, or is it split?

52:55>> So, there is a base salary. >> Okay. What's the split between commission and base? >> Um So, they're at 42 base, >> Okay. >> uh per annum, and then 10% of the assignment fees. >> Okay. >> Of the fees. It's commission. >> Um all right. This is So, So, you have You have an ops issue, which is sales ops.

53:20And so, it's go like this is going to be much more weedy in terms of like tactics to answer this question. Um but it's like there's probably like 20 things that you need to be doing, and you're probably doing like 13 of them, and the other seven are going to be the thing that make the difference in creating the consistency of the team. That's at the service level. At the at the at the deep root of this is who's the leader of the sales team. >> I do have a sales manager. >> Okay. So, he or she is the problem.

53:51Because like sales at the end of the day is a culture game. Well, everything's a culture game, but like sales you can feel it so quickly when things are good or not good because the performance the feedback clips are so fast. Um but for whatever reason you do not have a culture of consistency within your team. I would wager that script adherence is low because you have such variability in close rates. Unless there's a change in lead quality, which would be something else. But are the leads the same like this month as last month?

54:23>> Yes, the leads are the same. >> Yeah, so it's a sales discipline issue, which then comes down to the training cadence, the scripting, um how people are being managed on a daily basis and weekly basis in terms of their career goals, how like you're doing morning me like it's it's this is all sales ops. Um I could I could like just start talking about sales, but like this is a pure sales ops issue. And so, at the like there's

54:51>> [snorts] >> there's a two-step like I would approach this in two steps. Step one is we should do all the stuff that we are not currently doing or we should be doing. Everyone should be reading the same script. If they are not reading the script, why are you on this team? Right? Uh we need to have training that's every day to make sure that they are saying things the right way. We need to make sure that everyone memorizes the script. Some of you guys might have seen the YouTube video I put out like two days ago about this. But like they have to breathe the script. If they were not saying the script word for word, you cannot be on this team. You cannot take these calls. I'm getting these leads and not for you to go cowboy and make [ __ ] up. And that then if we cannot solve that problem because for whatever reason you keep trying it and they don't adhere and they go off script because they just want to close the deals, it means you have a cultural issue, which is a leader problem. Because it means the leader is reinforcing behaviors that get people to go off script and there's no consequences for doing it.

55:43And so, if you want to have a consistent world-class sales team, the process has to always go above the player. No one is above the process. And I do think that 95, maybe 98% of sales teams have no idea how sales training, how sales culture, any of this stuff works. They just hire a bunch of people, see who closes deals, fire the rest, and so then you just have a bunch of mercenaries who work for you, but there is no culture, there is no team, and it's every man for himself.

56:15And that is what creates this volatility in sales, and some guy says something and he closes a deal and the other guy is like, "I'm going to try that now." And there's no consistency across the board, and that also gets you in trouble long-term because they start promising things and making deals that you can't cash. >> That makes a lot of sense. I um up until now, I mean, we have scripts, but they're more of suggestions. >> Guidelines. >> Yeah, I mean >> No, it's I mean, like I've done a lot of sales. Um like this is a straight-out-of-the-book checklist problem. Like, we have to do all of these things. If we do this entire checklist, we will get this outcome. If we can't do this checklist, the leader is the problem because they don't know how to reinforce culture, which then means that they're not able to get the right people on and the wrong people out, which sometimes means we might have to fire half the team to get the right people in so that we can build the culture we need to get to where we want to go.

57:06Cuz you are in like I showed the shapes of businesses, you are in a sales and marketing business. There's functionally no delivery. Like, you're just basically like are you are you guys doing outbound or like smiling and dialing or do you buy leads from setting teams? >> Inbound is Google Ads. >> Google Ads? Okay, so you have inbound leads that are coming in and then you close. Like, that's the business. Like, you buy media, you sell [ __ ] And so like this has to be a core like you have to be world-class at this if you want to be world-class at wholesale.

57:36>> Got you. >> But that's the constraint. >> In the event that I have to, you know, let go of half the team because they're just not good enough. Where do you suggest I look for um >> It's not about where, it's about how. So, it's not like I'm going to find like the better you get at training sales and creating consistent sales processes the less skill someone can have and create a consistent outcome within your team, which becomes the arbitrage of your business. Just like I said the cleaning thing before, if the whole constraint of that business is going to be finding, you know, basically taking a human being and then turning them to a great cleaner that actually shows up on time, you have to take the raw input of somebody who has no skill and just has work ethic, just has energy, and in 14 days you can get them closing deals on wholesaling. That box is the value that your company that is your IP. That is the trade secret. That's how your company is valuable.

58:25And so, when I say who versus how, like where do I find these people? You could run Indeed ads and find like for this caliber of salesperson, they're everywhere. Uh the issue is then what is the process and what are the expectations we're setting for those people as they walk in. And so, typically when you're doing high-volume sales like you are, how many guys you have on the team? >> Um currently 17. >> Okay. So, when you have that that I mean it's, you know, mid-size. Uh someone comes in, uh usually you get constrained because the amount of churn you have of people quitting leaving is about equal to what you have to hire and that's what keeps you stuck, right? And so, it's a process issue kind of on the demand gen side for talent. And so, usually you look at that and say, "Okay, what part of this can we screen ahead of time?" So, it's like let's send them the script before they even show up. So, people apply, we send them the script.

59:13And then send us a 60-second video of you saying the script. And then from the 60-second videos we're going to invite people to a group call, not one-on-one cuz we don't have time for that, and we're going to go quick drill, say the script, give a piece of feedback, see how they do it again. If they can take the feedback well and they were prepared, great. It means they're coachable, they have work ethic. Awesome. Now we can take you to a a job offer call. Somebody, you know, has attitude on the coaching, they're out. If someone doesn't show up prepared, they're out. Very easy screening. And so you take 10, you pick two, pick three, they go to the next one, you make job offers. And that's the flow. But like the entire sales process of selling them on selling for you sets the frame [snorts] for how the company operates.

59:54Like how disciplined you are and how militant you are in terms of how you set the frame for this is how we [ __ ] do things here. Either get in or get out. I do not care, but we win. And if you can set that frame, you will attract winners. And winning's not for everybody. And so that means that on the team there's probably some losers. And it's not for everybody. So this is a decision you make and that's from top down.

1:00:19So there's the tactics and then there's the Rudisha. I would try this first. >> I sell lawn fertilization weed control to Indianapolis homeowners. >> Dude, how did you win the affiliate contest? >> I texted >> got all the homeowners, you were like, "Let's go. Buy some books, baby." >> I didn't text any clients. It was all just friends. >> Dude, I appreciate it, man. Thanks for promoting it. >> Um If we do uh we'll probably end between 1.5 and 2 million this year.

1:00:46>> Okay. >> Um I'd like to be at five before I decide what I want to do after that. >> sell B2B to like who do you Do you sell to lawn care or >> Primarily homeowners. 90 90% >> Okay, got it. Okay. >> Um we have a few affiliate situations. >> E-commerce or like in-person local? >> It's all local. We fertilize lawns. >> Got it, you do that too. My bad. I I thought you were just selling the fertilizer, not the services. Okay, understood. >> So we're primarily dealing with homeowners.

1:01:13Um I feel like what's our main constraint is just I mean sales and marketing. We have a good product, good service. We don't have >> What's revenue retention? >> We The way I track it, we retain about 75%. Um we have a service in the fall that's kind of a one-off service, and so those people churn at a higher rate, and I don't have those numbers separated. >> Okay.

1:01:40Um Okay, so you >> Can you handle I think Um can you handle more customers now? >> Yeah. Yeah, I um I've been here like three times in the last 3 months, so I feel like I kind of know what I need to do. I just got to do it. Uh but big part of what I'm trying to work on over the winter, our big sales season is spring, and so developing a more standardized sales motion. We have one rep who has a ton of experience in the industry, but he doesn't follow anything. He just sells. We give him the leads, and he closes.

1:02:15Decent percentage, 40 45%, but we don't actually know what's good about what he does. And so I need to develop sales scripts and stuff like that. I don't necessarily know where to start when it comes to building a system, especially cuz this guy is not super good with change. >> So that's all right. You have an all-star salesperson. The best salespeople are basically terrible at everything but selling.

1:02:39>> Hello. There we go. Um so that's okay and normal and to be expected. The best way to do it is to observe it the same way that I was describing earlier, I think it was to Anders, um about how to teach. And so you would literally just look at him as though you were an autist and say, "What does this person do?" And just literally observe them like you were a court reporter, so you can't put any emotion or any judgment on it. It's just what are the things this person does, and what are the things they say?

1:03:05And then their voice goes up here, they pause here. And the more quantified you can make that, the more you can drill it and train it. And the big thing with sales training that I think the vast majority of businesses underestimate is just how much training is required to make a truly world-class team. I think 90 So, everybody who has the sales handbook can kind of get You guys have my schedule for how we onboard and how we train. And I think for many people that's a big belief breaker. It's hard for people to comprehend exactly how much we train at acquisition.com.

1:03:31It's a shitload. Um and so, to give context on that, our sales team trains every single day. Every day. And they all role-play every single day. And every week they have a one-on-one with Game Tape with their manager of what they specifically need to work on. And like that muscle and like do you know how to train Like do you know how to train a salesperson? >> Um I would say no. >> Okay. So, you train sales people through like role-playing until your eyes bleed.

1:03:59Cuz fundamentally it's the fastest feedback loop that you can give someone in terms of training anything. So, they say something and so, the way that we train is number one is you have to memorize a script. And so, the way you memorize a script is you put the script in front of someone, they print out a second script, and then they read the script out loud, and then they block out one of the words, and they read it again, and they block out another word, and they read it again. And by the time you've blocked out every single word, you've said the script for as many times as there are words in the script, and you tend to [ __ ] know it. And so, then you're staring at an entirely blacked-out page saying the entire script. That's how you memorize a script. Once you can breathe the script, which is what we call it, once you can breathe the script, then we practice the role-playing component, um which is us going back and forth. And so, when you're reading the script with someone, we have a hand up with heads nodding.

1:04:43And the first time someone's going to go through stripper say, "Hey, just to be clear, we're going to interrupt you probably like 50 or 60 times by the time you get to the end of it. That's okay." The worst way that do people do role-playing is that someone they go through a whole role-play or someone just says the script. That's the worst way. The second worst way is that you go through it and we quote role-play, and at the end the guy says, "All right. So, you know, at the beginning you could have done this a little bit different, and you know, kind of said this a little bit bad at the end, and you probably should have offered it like this." No one's going to remember that. It doesn't matter. It's way too late. The reason that superstition happens is because you change something and then you immediately get feedback. And so once someone does it, we call it locking it in. So it's like they mess something up, we say, "Hey, stop. Try it like this. Do it again." They do it. If they get it right, we say, "Great. Lock it in." That means do it again. Do it again. Do it again. Keep going. And so that's how we drill the script so that every person delivers the script the same way. The vast majority of sales teams have a script, it's loose, no one really pays attention to it, and the way that they recruit sales people is that they just hire a bunch, see who sticks, and then let the rest go.

1:05:43Exceptional sales reps, which I consider us to be, can take anyone to be a a savage. It's just a question of how much effort we're willing to put into somebody. As long as you know how to train the skill of sales, which sales is so trainable as a skill, um that's the feedback loop that has to get created. So the first step for you is we have to observe the salesman, and then we have to document the words they say and what they do. Once we have that, that becomes the basis for the memorization, and then the role playing becomes making sure they execute that. And I always want adherence above everything. So we are like the New England Patriots in terms of how we run the sales team, which is the process is above everyone. No one's better than the process. And the way we position that is like thousands of sales calls, thousands of hours have gone into like men died and gave their lives to give us this script. You were not better than the script. And so you say the script because you know these words close people, period.

1:06:34And that's the approach that we have, and that's the deference that we give to the process. And so if you have a star salesperson, one of the difficult parts is that that person tends to be a cowboy. Right? Does whatever he wants as long as he closes deals. That is a cultural issue. It will be a cancer long term if he's a prima donna. And so most of the time, I would rather have a team of all eights closing on a 10 out of 10 process, and that team will always outperform a team that has one star and no process.

1:07:01Okay. >> Um so from a logistical perspective, making the script, do I do that with him if he's not like following a script? >> He is following a script. He just doesn't know what it is. >> Okay. So, we I should work with him together. >> There are certain types of words that he says in a specific order to get people to buy. >> Mhm. >> If you observe 10 of his conversations, you'll get 80% of them. And then what most sales people who are like him do is they add too many words.

1:07:29>> Yeah. >> And so people get cute. And so they'll add stuff. And so most of the times when you create a script, you want to eliminate as many words as humanly possible. And so if we go into an organization to fix the sales process, typically we'll cut the script in half or more. Because there's so much extra stuff. It's the sneezing. It's the I got to touch the plate in all four places before I hit the ball. There's tons of superstition that's woven into the script because they don't know and it worked one time so they keep doing it. And the script just gets longer and longer and longer, not more effective.

1:07:55>> Yeah. Um So, um we I mean we only sell the majority of our services in call it March, April, May. >> Can I just walk you Do you have the sales uh handbook? >> I Is it the ACQ closer Yeah, I have that. I read through it. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Model that each There's model that script. >> Yeah.

1:08:21>> Like there's an intro, there's a disco, there's recaps, there's offer, there's the rest of the pieces there. Like just model the script. >> Yeah, I've been doing that for our Christmas lights for what was what we're selling right now. >> Is it working? >> Um well, we're just starting. >> Okay. >> I can't tell you that. >> Christmas hasn't really come yet. >> Um the last question, when it comes to uh the training stuff, you know, you said you do it every day. If that's something that I can stand here and say is my biggest constraint and I need to do it every day, I should just do it. But if I also say that I it's not in my capacity, is that something that if I

1:08:56>> you from it being done? >> Yeah. Is there If I were to have another rep, could I just have the two of those guys do it every day together or do I need to be in there every day if I'm not even necessarily a sales guy? Like I'm not even good at necessarily sales. >> you not being a sales guy doesn't necessarily mean that you wouldn't be able to document the sales process well. >> Sure. >> In some ways it might actually make you better. >> Okay. >> So I would just not like let that like cloud your judgment around that too much. >> So I should still try and be there in every meeting that I

1:09:23>> understanding like there's core elements of a business like understanding how revenue comes in. Like how are leads generated, how are they converted and how do we deliver are the core elements of every business. And so like I believe the owner should know how to do all those things. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Because there will get to a point where like play it out. The sales guy so where is where is where is my pest control? There you are. See like he'll just go and just start his own thing and then you'll be screwed. >> Yeah.

1:09:49Yeah. >> So talk about key man risk. It's like how do we make sure that this business can you know sustain and thrive? Make sure you know the sales process. >> Yeah. I I was spending all my time marketing trying to acquire as many leads as possible and my fear is that once we overcome what he's capable of doing that the next guy won't be able to replicate it essentially. >> And they won't but the business And they won't but the business needs to be able to operate at 80% efficiency with a star.

1:10:17If the business can be profitable without a star existing the model is broken. >> Mhm. >> They're either mispriced like there's some issue with the model if it can't work unless there's a star. >> Cool. So just develop a standardized sales motion. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. >> [applause]

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