Als Creator 2026 Geld verdienen

0:00In 2024, you started working with school. >> Yeah. >> And so I think it's an interesting question using yourself as a case study. Number one, the product that you're associating with. It's not one that you like built it all nuts and bolts yourself. >> It was very much here's an existing company, but I can grow it. >> And so it come kind of comes down for creators to question, hey, like do you really want to lean into being an entrepreneur and do it yourself or do you just want to do a brand deal? >> This is gonna be really interesting. So because I've given a huge amount of thought to this. So I uh I I'll see if I can get the number right, but the creator paths exist on a spectrum.

0:35Basically, five paths of monet monetization for a creator. So, and they exist on an axis of control. And so, at the lowest amount of control, you have sponsorships, right? Like people just pay you money. You give basically you're an advertiser. >> And so, you promote their stuff, you read an ad, whatever. >> That's that. one degree next to that you have being an affiliate uh which is just like you know getting sponsors except you're paying performance because what we do when you do an affiliate deal uh or a performance-based deal you're saying I would like a larger percentage of the upside if I can prove that I can generate it and so what you're essentially doing is shifting the risk from them to you and the more risk you're willing to take on the greater percentage of the upside and so winners always work on performance no one should be able to as accurately estimate how much you can drive

1:22>> no one knows better than you do >> right you're the seller. So like in M&A terms, uh the seller of a business, the person who has the business you're selling to somebody else always has an information advantage because they always know more about the business than the person buying, right? And so you are the seller of attention. So you should always know the value of your attention better than someone else. Now, if you know that your attention is [ __ ] um and doesn't actually convert at all, then maybe you should just do the sponsor. >> Brand it's the brand value. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:48>> Yeah. We're just it's it's overall the impression. >> Now you've got me on board. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's going to change everything. So, yeah. Anyway, so you've got you've got uh sponsorships here. You've got kind of affiliates and performance deals here. Then you've got kind of the the next uh path, which is what I what I did with school, which is um you promote and you so I put capital in the deal, too. So, it wasn't just uh >> you also invested too. Yeah.

2:13>> Yeah. Yeah. It was a big deal. Yeah. >> Um and so >> we invested capital in the company and we invested resources and we invested brand. So it's we did all so I think about them in terms of like what are the buckets that create an investment. So there's work and for me there's brand some people don't have that but like there's work there's brand and then there's capital and so we put all three into the business. I think there's a really nice sweet spot there >> because what you can do is rather than try and go through all the iterations I say hey let's do a deal it has to be significant enough for me to like make it worth using what I would consider a brand bullet on and let's let's get carrot into every business in the US, not just creators. And then if like if that's compelling, then then you get to just do what you're good at as a creator. This is me talking to creators, and let the business do what they've already proven, and this is the key point, that they've already proven they are good at. And so this is where a little bit of business acumen comes, it comes into play. Um this is where like understanding what revenue retention is, looking at churn, looking at user acquisition, looking at engagement rates, look at activation points, whatever that you want to look at a business to understand, okay, is this actually is the product good? Because what you want as a creator like the perfect nirvana situation is unbelievable product compounding on its own from word of mouth

3:28>> for 12 to 24 months in a market that's like very similar to your audience and that you know that you can 10x in a year. That's where the magic happens for both parties. >> Yeah. They have an amazing product that could grow without you, but with you it just grows that much faster. And so fundamentally, all you're doing is pulling the future forward by like four years. You're cutting the compounding curve and just basically step step-wise increasing in a straight line up and then saying, "Okay, we're just going to pull year four forward." And now we're going to compound starting next month at year four to five rather than year 2 to three, right? And that's fundamentally what I was doing with school. And I mean, think about the amount of deals that we look at. School was the only deal that I've done since that time period. It was because it hit all of those things.

4:10>> Now, next on So, that's like third stop on our creator world here. The next is that you can white label. So, you can drop ship stuff, which is pretty common um that I see as the simplest way of this is like you don't manufacture t-shirts. You find a t-shirt manufacturer, you slap your logo on it, and you ship it. >> Pretty straightforward. And then the final version, final boss of this is that you create a product from scr from scratch or service from scratch and you market and sell it. And uh those are degrees of control that exist on that spectrum. There is a right path for everyone and you just have to have some level of awareness to know which path is yours. Now which of these can create the most enterprise value the further on the right you are

4:53>> uh the more enterprise value you have. Um, if you are doing sponsorships or affiliate deals, which is the first two categories that I talked about, those two can create enterprise value in of themselves, if you consider yourself a media business, which is so funny. I was talking to a Mondo creator, so like 20 million plus subscribers. And it was so funny. He was like, "Dude, what we're doing, like no one's ever done this before, like have a business around like making videos." And I was like,

5:19>> "So, you know, media has existed for a long time, right?" And I was like, "Yeah." And when I when I told him I was like, "Dude, med like you should just look at existing media businesses." And it was like this big light bulb. I was like, "All we're doing is taking an old business model and just doing it in a new medium." Like that's all it is. Right. The difference though is if you look at like a great media business of the new age is like bar stool sports. >> Right. >> Right. And Dave Portoi is sort of now a creator. I would say he is a creator now, but it wasn't started that way. He just saw the arbitrage that existed for all these cheap impressions properties.

5:48>> Yeah. Exactly. and he built a network and so that he could sell impressions across a specific demo um to advertisers. And if that's the business, I just have yet to see. I think YMH, Your Mom's House for Comedy, I think they have a handful of productions, so they're kind of becoming a media >> Zack Justice is trying to do this, too, right? Yal Zach. It's tough though, especially if you're the primary like bread winner kind of for the media business. I would say it's it's almost simpler to be like, "Hey, I know a ton of advertisers, right? let me sell your ad space and I think you could far more easily acquire a big network from that perspective which is basically what portway did.

6:25>> Interesting. So for your POV if you've successfully built the media side of your business like that's a win but the upside according to your degrees of control it's very limited and as you mentioned I was trying to think of people who I think have built these successful media empires. So there have been many who failed like Buzzfeed is a great example. >> Many have failed. Yeah. >> Many many have failed. We're going to reinvent the game. It's like well you're just doing what newspapers did I'll be on a new medium internet there are some creators who have succeeded in building yeah exactly right yeah Daily Mail and there are some creators who've gone they've taken steps in this direction where they've almost scaled their content so one that comes to mind Linus tech tips is a very good example where Linus Tech Tips started with just Linus and over the time he's brought in other creators to be on his channel instead of himself and then you also have creators like I think MKBHD is a great example too MKBHD I still think of as primarily as a media business

7:14>> he doesn't do that much with products and well he actually tried one a wallpaper app that got a lot of backlash which I you know if I were MKBHD I feel like I would be like yeah I know you know what I'll just stay and do content over here because whenever I sort of go over there people get mad at me. >> Yeah. >> Now it sounds like you're saying though from your POV this is >> Can we hit on this real quick before we we we switch? Um so I want to say this mostly to the the creators or people who have started from organic and like built an audience and whatnot.

7:41>> There there's two types of angry. [laughter] So there are there's angry because you have done something that you said you wouldn't do or that is against your brand or purported values, >> right? >> Then [clears throat] there is people who think that everything in the world should be free. >> And I find that YouTube or really across all platforms, these people exist and you can by and large ignore them. And so I think that when people promote anything um they get backlash because anything that you give me that is not free, [ __ ] you die. Y

8:14>> I think on some level you just got to be like okay anything worth doing is going to get lashed back and there's like show me one ultra famous person because this is all we're talking about creators and influence and audiences who doesn't have haters, >> right? >> And so if you're going to get hate regardless, you might as well also accomplish your objectives. >> So that's just my two cents on now betraying the brand that you have. No, I think that's dumb. Um, so like if you have for example a naturopathic brand of weight loss, don't push a Zmpic. That's probably a bad idea. At the same time, if you said, "Hey, I've got these supplements that help you do that or I have this, you know, uh, nutrition program that I'm, you know, you do a retreat with me three times a year."

8:53>> Seems of course I'm thinking of Liver King because the whole premise was his gains came from his diet, not from other things. >> 100%. If >> you've been honest, I think it would have been fine. >> I think Yeah. Um, it would have been interesting for sure. >> Yeah. Fine. Maybe not fine. It would have been interesting. >> Oh, yeah. I eat I eat, you know, goat nuts, but I also inject uh Tren. Um like people are like, "So, is it the goat nuts or is it Tren?" >> Well, it's actually both. It's the interaction between the two. >> That's where the magic happens, right?

9:18Like um Yeah. So, I that's that's Yeah. But he actually I think he's uh it's it's it's a worthwhile example to pull that up because so obviously there was a moment where in time where he went super viral and then it peaked and then Derek as a call back to earlier uh ended up being the one who outed him. >> He smooed him. I remember he exposed it. Here's the thing. >> Liver King still makes content >> and I would imagine that he probably still makes good money.

9:43>> Yep. >> And so I would see what happened to Liver King as close to a quote brand suicide moment as you can get. >> And yet, >> yeah, >> he keeps going. And so here's the here's the real real I don't think you can get cancelled. And so a lot of people have this fear of making a mistake that's going to end their career. And no mistake ends your career unless you choose to end it. >> And so you can always get back up and keep going. The only way that you can actually get canceled is if you get prevented from distribution,

10:14>> right? >> So if all platforms deplatform you, if every platform did that, then yeah, you are canceled, right? Like R. Kelly is in jail >> and can't make content. >> He cannot make content. So like he has been he has been effectively canceled. >> On the flip side, how many times has Chappelle been cancelled? I'll put that in quotes here, right? >> He's not canceled. he just keeps going, right? Um, and so in the same light, uh, to to further hopefully put a stake through this thing, your assumption that you have killed your career assumes that everyone in the world knows who you are,

10:42>> and the vast majority of the world doesn't even know you exist, nor do they really care. Um, subtext. And so, like, let's say you have a million person audience. Okay, you mess up. Just go get another million. You're not dead. And if anything, you start having learned a lesson and you just keep going. It's interesting because like I think the poster childs for this in some ways are like Jake and Logan Paul. >> Dude, the Suicide Forest thing.

11:07>> Yeah. >> Like here he is on WWE or whatever whatever they're doing now. I don't follow as as tightly as I probably should to be uh you know in this world. But um >> he's still around and he's quote bigger than Yeah. And so like >> he also Jake Paul also has a VC fund now. >> Yeah. Well, there you go. There are so many examples of quote career-ending moves that didn't actually end the career. What you have to be able to deal with, and this is the real hard part, is that you have to be you have to be able to handle hate for a week

11:36>> because the news cycle is about a week. And so, you have to be able to just be hated. And it's very against our human wiring to receive that much hatred and continue onward, >> especially online, it's amplified. >> It's impossible to fathom a million people telling you that you suck. >> Have you gone through that yourself? >> Um, I mean, I've had my moments of people hating on stuff that I that I put out. Um, usually it's just stuff that I put out that just triggers people in general. And I would say that part of it is intended to do that. Like because I have relatively extreme views um on life and death and things like that. And um I make those because those are the views that helped me free myself and made life a lot more palatable for me. I've always been like and if it helps you, use it.

12:15And if it doesn't, don't worry about it. Use whatever you're doing. >> This is not me trying to procelitize. This is me sharing what's worked for me. But of course, people see it and they're triggered because this conflicts with their worldview. >> My content is a documentary, not a sermon. When you think about the different axes of control, the different models you've said, what's interesting is I've seen a lot of creators stay in the media emperor side. I've seen a good number of creators make money via their own products. >> Like obviously there's festivals. The middle area what you've done is actually very very rare.

12:44>> That's the advantage of if you understand the business game, you can do nasty things cuz I remember so there's I I can't wait for this to get the call back. Um, but one of my very first podcasts I ever did was on Ice Coffee Hour, um, with Graham Stefen and on the show, uh, I said if I had your size audience, I would already be a billionaire. I'm excited for when we cross that cuz I think it'll be pretty close. >> You have the audience now, Alex. So, is he say put up or shut up?

13:12>> Yeah. I mean, we've grown a ton. I'll just leave it at that. I'll say this for anybody who's who's listening to this. So, the problem with me claiming something, I would like to have a third party substantiate. Um, and so like I could say, well, if if you do know what our revenue is, right? And you put any kind of IBIDA on that, that would be reasonable, especially in a business that has low CAC, >> right? >> Uh, you would probably imagine that it would be decent. And you put any kind of multiple on that, it would be a pretty large number.

13:39>> And so we have things that are going for us, and we've had uh conversations with companies that said we would value in this in this range. But those are things that I wouldn't if I claim it, I want to be rock solid. >> Absolutely. >> Right. And so that's why I haven't. But that being said, um obviously we've grown a lot um in that period of time. And uh I I'm excited for whenever that call back comes because he still has more YouTube people. So I'm using that as mine as my >> You're saying we haven't quite reached your audience yet? >> Yeah. On YouTube. Yeah. I'm still I'm still I'm still uh behind his audience on YouTube.

14:07>> It's actually another good point though. You said multiple, right? The multiple that you would get on what you've built is going to be higher than say a pure YouTuber. >> Yeah. >> Here's your question. when you look at say like what Jimmy Mr. Beast has built. >> Yeah. Oh, perfect. I was going to come back to that. Yes. Okay. >> Is that a business you'd want to invest in yourself? >> So, I think I'd probably take Chamath's angle which is like you just you're basically betting on Jimmy >> and I think um Yeah, I would take that bet, >> right? >> Cuz I think Jimmy will just die or he'll win. >> Yep. >> And that's kind of you just want to find people like that. When your distribution base is the world, uh it's hard to lose.

14:38Yeah. I'll just I'll leave it at that. But what you brought up though, like Prime for example. >> Yeah. So, Prime is actually the identical to a school deal >> because he didn't build the product, >> right? It was Congo Brands is another company that previously had worked with other creators to do other drinks as well. >> Yeah. And so, they promoted it. >> Right. >> Right. But they put I don't know if they put cash in. I don't know if they did, but I'm assuming they put some money in cuz they have the capital. Why not to get more leverage on on the ultimate deal or joint venture? Was Logan going to learn the drink business and get the and get brickandmortar distri? Like maybe. But it's also the question is how much is your time worth? And I don't mean like

15:09>> dollars per hour or anything like that. You absolutely can do it. And when I say time is like how much is the next five years worth to you, right? >> Because if you can pull five years of knowledge forward and then grow for five years rather than learn for 5 years then begin growing because you're if you have an audience of their size, your constraint is going to be delivery. >> It's not distribut like >> Yeah. It's not it's not media distribution. It's going to be product distribution. >> Prime. Yes. >> Yeah. It's going to be product distribution. And so to to build out the kind of infrastructure and knowledge base uh to satisfy the demand internationally, not just nationally, internet because they're in the UK too.

15:44>> Um >> you need you need deep expertise and large existing infrastructure and so Cong. And so I would probably lean more towards that type of model. >> I'm curious like there's me, there's Sir Jimmy I think with Feastables is the only person who is building things truly from scratch. >> Yeah. >> Has hired his own team and everything. >> Yeah. And I don't know if if you were to ask Jimmy again today uh if he could go back in time if he would have >> just if he would have done it the same way.

16:12>> We talked about how stressful it is on your podcast. >> Well and we can and we can already say uh he launched lunchly >> right and well what did he do with lunch that he didn't do with fables? He didn't build it from scratch, >> right? >> And so I think part of that is there's a desire that I totally understand as a creator/ entrepreneur to control everything. And if you look at the people who are the wealthiest in the world, almost none of them own 100% of the companies that they have made their wealth on.

16:40>> So you look at Jensen Wang from Nvidia, he owns 4%. You look at Elon, he owns whatever it is, whatever small percentage of Tesla that he owns. Um, and with SpaceX, he's not the majority owner. Now, he might have voting rights, whatever. That's a different different question. Bas owns 9% of of Amazon. Like, I could go down the list. Warren Buffett, I think, doesn't own more than 40% of Berkshire Hathway. And we could keep going. And so, the idea is to build something really really big, in my opinion, need multiple lifetimes. M

17:08>> and you can either live all of those lifetimes uh in sequence chronologically yourself and then take a lifetime to finally learn how to do everything or you can get three people's lifetimes you all start together you divvy up the pie and then you can build something way bigger way faster the longer I've been doing business the more I value time and speed because also we have the assumption that these things will not change in 10 years so maybe it does take you 10 years to learn everything is the moment still there

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