How to Scale a Personal Brand With Content | 1 Hour of Alex Hormozi on Social Media

0:00You mentioned that it's something like 20 30% of the businesses coming to you, they make content in some way. Yeah. >> Do you think that those businesses because a lot of people talk about creator creator economy? Are they better than those that don't grow and have con as part of their workflow? >> Really interesting question. Um I think it's a it's a double-edged sword. >> So what makes them great also makes them risky. So they will typically have very low cost to acquire customers because it's organic. And so it's just

0:27>> some Yeah, it's some star or whatever. or I'll call it a star, right? Um who's who's good on camera, good in whatever format they they advertise in. Um so they acquire customers cheaply. Uh the other pro is that typically if someone starts with an organic audience, they really care about product because being a creator like your media is a product in a way and so they have the right perspective on like this has to be really good or I'm going to lose my reputation because the whole an organic brand is built off reputation. And so I think they're more obsessive about product which I think that's a huge plus. the the downsides for the business obviously is that they have massive keyman risk. So now I think where where you get really smart about it is if you can gain enough influence where you can develop an affiliate network um of businesses like somebody who's done really well is um Derek from uh Derek more plates more dates uh the fitness guy um he has I think an affiliate base of four or 5,000 affiliates that promote his fitness products and so he's become such an authority that people are willing to say well I don't want to remake what he's made I'll just promote his stuff and I think he has a good you know a good program there and so he's he's paying down his keyman risk by getting larger and larger percentage of the business. And so I think that the way to really scale an organic creator business is you launch it with the personal brand

1:43>> and then over time you backfill with other faces that you have to approve and that's the key part. You have to approve that are on brand with your values and your message and are authentic to the product that you have and are attracting the audiences that you want to go after. And then they over time become bigger than you and you kind of like Homer Simpson into the into the bushes. >> Oh yeah. You recede. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And you recede into the bushes until eventually people associate you with the brand but the brand outgrows you.

2:10>> It's fascinating because well two questions immediately come to mind. The first is on key man this is what you and Ila have. Are you thinking about bringing a roster of folks to slowly took for the faces of even the content side of your business? >> So two answers. First, we're not planning on selling acquisition and on any time price and that's useful. Um, and so I like I see Elon as keyman to SpaceX and Tesla. >> Yeah. >> And so what if you have the desire to exit a business then keyman risk becomes a problem. If you want to go public or you want to hold,

2:40>> it's really who cares? >> And so it's kind of a who cares issue. Um, that being said, the second answer is uh yes because I do like having fewer single points of failure in general. So despite the fact that I don't think we necessarily need it, I still like to build businesses that way in general and we have plans for what we're going to do over the next 24 months and beyond to build out ACQ's brand. >> Makes sense. Yeah. The second question I had related to that was when I look at creation space who've successfully executed on this is actually very minimal.

3:08>> Oh yeah, I can tell you one who I look at >> who >> Dave Ramsey. So >> that's right. He's brought in George. He's brought in other people under him. >> He's got Rachel who's his daughter, but like he's got Rachel. Um he's got John. Um he's got um group. Yeah, he's got nine I think channels for example just on YouTube that are associated with the primary. And what's interesting is that they basically run the same playbook.

3:31>> Um it's daily call-in show and clips and full episodes >> basically are are the channel. And so they clip each episode into like four or five 10 minute clips. Uh and they put each of those out. So that's like that gives them tons of good like mid-length clips. They get the one full episodes and then short clips get taken and become shorts. I study Ramsay a lot.

3:55>> Um one because I like Dave, but secondly because the amount of creators that get quote creator burnout >> is really high. >> Yeah. >> Um or we're talking like Shelby Church, right? She's kind of shifted to I would say a sustainable uh content model, right? But it's it doesn't really acquire new viewership anymore. Like you only care about a vlog if you care about the person. >> Yeah. It's you're maintaining or some creator OG on YouTube now they shift to a podcast,

4:22>> right? And it's because it's a quote easier format, but it doesn't really grow the audience. It just kind of like maintains the audience that you have. And again, to be clear, nothing wrong with that. >> Totally. >> But I look at somebody like Dave and I think he's been making content for 40 years. >> Like there's something to be learned from. I sell online programs. Um, US >> tax free >> USD. I actually have a tax incentives. >> There you go.

4:46>> Um, so I sell online fitness programs for SP Spanish speaking customers. >> Uh, I've been doing around $300,000 a year. I've been on that threshold since the pandemic. >> Okay. Um, I can generate viral content and engaging content, but I still don't have like a clear framework on turning those eyes into sales. I do get messaging and I do get sales from the messages, but I just don't have like a clear framework to grow more organically. I make more sales organically.

5:24>> Do you use a chatfunnel? >> Uh, what >> do you use? Many chat or what do you >> I I actually use ManyHat for lead generation >> and I also we retarget um I think my ad manager he doesn't uh push to cold audience. I've been kind of like >> So you said you make viral content though, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So you make viral content, you make fitness content, you sell content, you sell um personal online fitness to to Spanish speakers. Okay. So why are you running ads if you're making viral content?

5:52>> Well, because they're not converting. So, I'm trying to because I know I know what can go viral, but I don't know how to turn that viral into conversion. >> Yeah. Do you have a CTA inside of the viral content to like comment to get a thing? >> Yes, in some of them. Yeah. Okay. Not in all. >> Do you get people to comment to get a thing? >> Yeah. >> Okay. When they comment to get the thing, do you have a sorting question? >> Uh, >> are you here for the free thing or do you want help?

6:18>> Well, it usually is free freebies. So, >> right. Do you want the free thing or do you want lasting results? >> Okay. I was that a question? >> No, I'm saying that's what you should ask them. >> Oh, >> so they'll comment. >> It's a low. So I'm sorry. >> The first question. You're good. They'll comment. The first question that they'll ask is, "Hey, you here for the free thing or do you want lasting results?" Every like not everyone, but many people say like, "I want help or I want lasting results." >> So I pushed them to my landing page and it's a so it's a low ticket product. It's been a low ticket product for quite a bit.

6:52Seven years I've been running it. >> Yeah. >> And >> do you want to make more money? >> Huh? >> Do you want to make more money? >> I do. >> Okay. Do you want to call those people that bought the thing and offer them a more expensive thing? >> No. >> You don't want to do that? >> No. >> Okay. because [laughter] >> because I don't want to invest my time in that specifically because that would require me to uh do a high ticket product

7:18>> which I don't want to do because I have real estate properties and that's my high ticket over there. >> All right, we got Tammy here. >> Yeah, >> I just want to know a way where I can scale what I currently have because it's pretty automated, requires less people. I don't know if I should hire other people. Um I'm kind of stuck. >> Well, >> even with ad creation, I create about 30 ads per month.

7:45>> Yeah, that's not a lot. Yeah. So, um I mean, if if the entire conversion process right now is automated, which is what it sounds like, >> right? How many impressions are you getting a month or a week? >> Uh >> are you doing Instagram >> in in just Instagram this last month? Probably like 5 million. >> Okay. And then the the other platforms you're advertising on >> uh Facebook uh about the same. >> Okay. >> Five to seven.

8:10>> And it's all Many chat to a landing page that then on the landing page they buy the digital product. What's the price point? >> Say $30 a month. >> Okay. So it's continuity. >> Yeah. And LTV >> is what? >> Uh right now 140 140. >> Okay. Um I mean you have a fundamentally you only have one constraint to the business which is advertising. assuming the conversion process is good. Um, so your issue is that you're making viral content that doesn't create buyers.

8:39>> Yeah. >> Correct. And then when you make ads, they're not as profitable. >> They are through the beginning, maybe for a month or less. >> Uh-huh. >> Well, yeah. I mean, that's how ads work. >> Well, it's after July, I kind of had a big dip. >> Okay. >> With ads. So, now I'm creating more. >> Okay. Um, now I guess I have to create more. And

9:04>> you're making you're just making no ads, dude. 30 ads a month is nothing. >> How much would you say? >> I mean, go to like 100 a week, you'll make way more. >> 100 ads a week without content. >> That's not What about content? >> Yeah, what about content? >> I mean, of course you keep making content. How would you frame the >> If you want to get weird with it, take your viral content, put a CTA at the end that's more direct. As long as the viral content that you're making is about is the stuff you're making about like fitness stuff or is it just like memes?

9:39>> A little bit of both. I'm trying to find uh like a happy medium between Yeah. >> one and the other. >> If I make content So who So, anyone here watch my YouTube at all? Okay. So, I want to do like a quick poll. Um, favorite. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you four different types of content. Just vote for your favorite one. Um, cash cows, which is me interviewing an entrepreneur doing like a deep breakdown. Okay, so that's

10:07>> h Oh, you want to know what the four are? Fair. That was a blind survey. I can appreciate that. Okay, so cash cows is one. Uh, the second is like brutally honest, kind of like life, mindset, etc. Uh, number three is kind of like the more live stream, quick Q&A, kind of more I mean me answering a call and answering that question. So tighter than the cash cow thing. Um and then four would just be like direct to camera training on whatever.

10:32So one so one is cash cows. Can I get hands for cash cows? Okay. Can I get um life advice for honest stuff? Interesting. Okay. Um the kind of like the live stream style like short hit phone call type stuff. Okay. Got one or a couple. Um, and then direct to camera training style. Oh, interesting. Good to know. Okay. So, um, if we take that, then when we're thinking about your content, that was partially just for me.

11:04Um, but when we're thinking about your content, uh, we need to make sure that the stuff that we're making is on what's what is what is going to attract buyers, >> right? So, you getting lots, right? You Well, yeah. you getting lots of views means very little if the views are not the people who buy. >> Yeah. >> And so right now you have an advertising problem. The content that you do that gets lots of views is not the one that people who buy watch. I think when you find the ones that are organic that pop off that do actually generate buyers, those you repurpose into ads, add a CTA and at the end drive those through your funnel, but fundamentally you're just not doing nearly enough advertising for how big you want to be.

11:43>> Okay. So you so you'd really say a 100red a week, >> dude. Hundreds. Yeah. Yes. >> And that in that's both videos and images or just videos >> total. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Yeah. You bet. [applause] >> What's your advice for dental clinic marketing since I had an agency and we're working abroad for patients using lower prices in their country? Okay. So, uh I would say right now, I mean, I've seen this all over the place, but you can advertise in any way, right? You could do outbound, you could do content, you could do ads. My bet given what you're what you're talking about is I would probably do this as a content strategy. Like I don't know if you guys have seen this, like the the Turkish hair, like they've got like there's like a whole industry in Turkey around like guys who are bald getting like their hair back. Um, and the doctors who are over there just post before and afters left and right all day long on Instagram, on Tik Tok, and that's how they're generating inbound demand. Uh, so I would say that's like number one.

12:43But the way to operationalize that is you have to build it into the the the customer journey. So like when they come in immediate picture, you know, day 30, day 60, it's like we have to go collect these pictures and if you want you can give rebates for it. Most time you don't have to. Um and then by doing that it's like every single person who comes in the door is a potential before and after. So it's like you can get 20 figuratively 20 posts a day. Uh or I don't know how many how many teeth you're doing, right? But maybe it's two posts a day, right? That you can source directly from your existing customers and you don't have to do anything else.

13:12And then you can explain just like do the before and after and then do like a quick 30 second like hey this is you don't have to say their name you can put cover the eyes if you have to like this was a unique case and if you're struggling with XYZ pain-based hook um you know this is something we do all the time at our you know at our clinic right that's thing one um thing two is I don't love winning on price but it is sometimes just like some of the strategy and that's okay. Um you could just experiment with running ads. My bet though, I'm just saying because anything that's like I mean they are I guess they are bargain hunting but people kind of want the best of both. It's like they want it to be good and they want it to be cheap. And so like I would lead with content first.

13:48I would take the best performing content and then I would run that as ads uh with the offer. So content first, find winner, put a CTA on the end of the winner, and then drive paid uh to that. That's what I would do. I'm a pro volleyball player and I have 150,000 followers across platforms. Any tips for monetizing my audience? Yes, I have tips. So many tips. Many, many tips. The frosted the most frosted of tips. Uh right now only taking oneoff brand deals. Well, dude, um a couple things. So, I think one of the things hard for a lot of uh kind of like celebrity or sports people is understanding what business they're really in. So if you want to be like basically you are a media company like fun like fundamentally what are what like what are what are pro sports and sports in general? They're entertainment. That's what they are right. So they entertain people. What is the point of entertainment? To get people to continue to watch. That is what the point of entertainment is. And so really good entertainment gets lots of people to keep watching. That's what good entertainment is by the way. That's what the news is too. Crazy. Anyways, so if that's the business that you're in, you need to make the decision. Okay. So, first off, you're in the media business more than it's and it's like you are a performer. You perform a specific skill.

15:03People watch you and that's how the game works. Okay. Now, from there, you kind of have two paths. Path one is you keep going in the entertainment direction. Um, which you can do by just showing more and more clips of you playing you spiking and doing all sorts of stuff and probably interweaving stuff about you, which will then kind of build some depth to the audience rather than you just being some trickshot guy. Right? That's path one. And the primary way that you're probably going to monetize is the way you currently are, which is that you're going to have to do outbound via sponsorships. Um, but I see that as relatively limited.

15:35The alternative path um is to become more of an education business. And so I I'll give you a shout out to Trevor Bower. Um he uh he was, if you don't know who he is, he was one of the best pitchers of all time and had a really unfortunate situation that came up where a girl lied and whatever. I don't want to get into it, but um and I'm saying that because she came out later and said she would. Um but it ruined his career and he basically wasn't allowed to play pro anymore. So what did he do? He couldn't he couldn't play pro anymore.

16:05Uh and so he had to find another way to monetize. And so uh one is he shows people how to pitch. So I think you showing people how to do volleyball stuff and do it the way that you do it is a really good one. So, it's like, can we develop an app or training program um that you could sell digitally to show people how to jump higher, spike more, run faster, the workouts associated with volleyball, all that stuff would totally work. The second is that you can sell kind of like high like it depends how much clout you have in the space but like you signing balls, you signing shorts, you signing shirts or having merch associated with a brand uh that you want to maybe it's like you know high level spike or maybe you're a serving specialist whatever your thing is right um I would have training around that and I would have merch around that.

16:51Now when you do that you kind of transition more into an educator uh and less of a entertainer but from a monetization perspective I would be strongly looking at that. Now door three is that you just find a company that you really like a lot and see if you can negotiate a deal where you can get a percentage of the company from an equity perspective and maybe even a tiny slice of a royalty based on the traffic that you send. um where you become a brand spokesperson and then you hope that that business eventually, you know, exits and whatnot and you just focus on making content and playing. So um sponsorships is going to be more passive obviously you just have to sell and then keep making content. Uh when you become an educator, you have to do more work because you have delivery. Now you could just sell pure digital um that would make you less money but it would be less work. Uh if you sold digital and then also services in terms of you looking at people spiking, giving them feedback. Um that's like basically a personal training business that's that's focused on volleyball. So, uh, that works for any kind of creator that's kind of in any of those niches, but those are kind of the paths that I would be looking at.

17:49Um, and all of those are different ways that you can monetize. >> In 2024, you started working with school. Yeah. >> And so, I think it's an interesting question using yourself as a case study. Number one, the product that you're associating with, it's not one that you like built it all nuts and bolts yourself. It was very much here's an existing company, but I can grow it. Mhm. >> And so it come kind of comes down for creators the question of hey like do you really want to lean into being an entrepreneur and do it yourself or do you just want to do a brand deal?

18:20>> This is going to be really interesting. So cuz I've given a huge amount of thought to this. So I uh I'll see if I can get the number right. But the creator paths exist on a spectrum basically five paths of monet monetization for a creator. So and they exist on an axis of control. And so at the lowest amount of control, you have sponsorships, right? Like people just pay you money. You give basically you're an advertiser. >> And so you promote their stuff, you read an ad, whatever.

18:48>> That's that one degree. Next to that, you have being an affiliate, uh, which is just like, you know, getting sponsors except you're paying performance. Cuz what we do when you do an affiliate deal, uh, or a performance-based deal, you're saying, I would like a larger percentage of the upside if I can prove that I can generate it. And so what you're essentially doing is shifting the risk from them to you. And the more risk you're willing to take on, the greater percentage of the upside. And so winners always work on performance. No one should be able to as accurately estimate how much you can drive.

19:17>> No one knows better than you do, >> right? You're the seller. So like in M&A terms, uh the seller of a business, the person who owns the business you're selling to somebody else, always has an information advantage because they always know more about the business than the person buying, right? And so you are the seller of attention. So you should always know the value of your attention better than someone else. Now, if you know that your attention's [ __ ] um and doesn't actually convert at all, then maybe you should just do the >> sponsor brand. It's the brand value.

19:42>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're just It's It's overall the impression. >> Now, you've got me on board. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's going to change everything. So, yeah. Anyway, so you've got you've got uh sponsorships here. You've got kind of affiliates and performance deals here. Then you've got kind of the the next uh path, which is what I what I did with school, which is um you promote and you So, I put capital in the deal, too. So it wasn't just uh >> you also invested I wrote too. Yeah.

20:09Yeah. It was a big deal. Yeah. >> Um and so we invested capital in the company and we invested resources and we invested brand. So it's we did all so I think about them in terms of like what are the buckets that create an investment. So there's work and for me there's brand. Some people don't have that but like there's work, there's brand and then there's capital. >> And so we put all three into the business. I think there's a really nice sweet spot there because what you can do is rather than try and go through all the iterations, I say, "Hey, let's do a deal. It has to be significant enough for me to like make it worth using what I would consider a brand bullet on and let's let's get carrot into every business in the US, not just creators."

20:47And then if like if that's compelling, then then you get to just do what you're good at as a creator. Um, this is me talking to creators and let the business do what they've already proven. And this is the key point that they've already proven they are good at. And so this is where a little bit of business acumen comes comes into play. Um this is where like understanding what revenue retention is, looking at churn, looking at user acquisition, looking at engagement rates, look at activation points, whatever that you want to look at a business to understand, okay, is this actually is the product good?

21:15Because what you want as a creator, like the perfect nirvana situation is unbelievable product compounding on its own from word of mouth >> for 12 to 24 months in a market that's like very similar to your audience and that you know that you can 10x in a year. That's where the magic happens for both parties. >> Yeah. >> They have an amazing product that could grow without you, >> but with you it just grows that much faster. And so fundamentally all you're doing is pulling the future forward by like four years. you're cutting the compounding curve and just basically step step-wise increasing in a straight line up and then saying okay we're just going to pull year four forward and now we're going to compound starting next month at year four to five rather than year 2 to three right and that's fundamentally what I was doing with school and I mean think about the amount of deals that we look at school was the only deal that I've done since that time period it was because it hit all of those things

22:04>> now next on so that's like third stop on our creator world here the next is that you can white label so you can drop ship stuff which is pretty common um that I see as the simplest way of this is like you don't manufacture t-shirts you find a t-shirt manufacturer you slap your logo on it and you ship it pretty straightforward and then the final version final boss of this is that you create a product from scr from scratch or service from scratch

22:29>> and you market and sell it and uh those are degrees of control that exist on that spectrum. there is a right path for everyone and you just have to have some level of awareness to know which path is yours. Now, which of these can create the most enterprise value? The further on the right you are, right? >> Uh the more enterprise value you have. Um if you are doing sponsorships or affiliate deals, which is the first two categories that I talked about, those two can create enterprise value in of themselves if you consider yourself a media business, which is so funny. I was talking to a Mondo creator, so like 20 million plus subscribers, and it was so funny. He was like, "Dude, what we're doing, like no one's ever done this before. Like have a business around like making videos." And I was like,

23:14>> "So, you know, media's existed for a long time, right?" And I was [laughter] like, >> and when I when I told him, I was like, "Dude, med like you should just look at existing media businesses." And it was like this big light bulb. I was like, "All we're doing is taking an old business model and just doing it in a new medium. Like that's all it is, right?" The difference though is if you look at like a great media business of the new age is like bar stool sports. >> Right. >> Right. And Dave Portoi is sort of now a creator. I would say he is a creator now, but it wasn't started that way. He just saw the arbitrage that existed for all these impressions properties.

23:42>> Yeah. Exactly. And he built a network and so that he could sell impressions across a specific demo um to advertisers. And if that's the business, I just have yet to see. I think YM Your mom's House for Comedy. I think they have a handful of productions. that they're kind of becoming a media. >> Zack Justice is trying to do this too, right? Y >> you have to talk to Zach. It's tough though, especially if you're the primary like bread winner kind of for the media business. I would say it's it's almost simpler to be like, "Hey, I know a ton of advertisers, right?

24:11>> Let me sell your ad space." And I think you could far more easily acquire >> a big network from that perspective, which is basically what Portway did. >> Interesting. So for your POV, if you've successfully built the media side of your business, like that's a win, but the upside according to your degrees of control, it's very limited. And as you mentioned, I was trying to think of people who I think have built these successful media empires. So there have been many who failed like Buzzfeed. It's a great example.

24:37>> Many have failed. Yeah. >> Many, many have failed. We're going to reinvent the game. It's like, well, you're just doing newspapers did, I'll be on a new medium, the internet. There are some creators who have succeeded in building. >> Yeah. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Daily Mail. And there are some creators who've gone they've taken steps in this direction where they've almost scaled their content. So one that comes to mind Linus Tech Tips is a very good example where Linus Tech Tips started with just Linus and over the time he's brought in other creators to be on his channel instead of himself. And then you also have creators like I think MKBHD is a great example too. MKBHD I still think of as primarily as a media business. Mhm.

25:08>> He doesn't do that much with products and well he actually tried one a wallpaper app that got a lot of backlash which I you know if I were MKBH I feel like I would be like yeah I know you know what I'll just stay and do content over here because whenever I sort of go over there people get mad at me. >> Yeah. >> Now it sounds like you're saying though from your POV this is >> Can we hit on this real quick before we we we switch? Um >> so I want to say this mostly to the the creators or people who have started from organic and like built an audience and whatnot. There there's two types of angry. [laughter] So there are there's angry because you have done something that you said you wouldn't do or that is against your brand or purported values,

25:48>> right? >> Then there is people who think that everything in the world should be free. >> And I find that YouTube or really across all platforms, these people exist and you can by and large ignore them. And so I think that when people promote anything um they get backlash because anything that you give me that is not free [ __ ] you die. Yeah. >> I think on some level you just got to be like okay anything worth doing is going to get lashed back and there's like show me one ultra famous person because this is all we're talking about creators and influence and audiences who doesn't have haters,

26:22>> right? >> And so if you're going to get hate regardless, you might as well also accomplish your objectives. M >> so that's just my two cents on now betraying the brand that you have. No, I think that's dumb. Um so like if you have for example a naturopathic brand of weight loss, don't push a ZIC. That's probably a bad idea. At the same time, if you said, "Hey, I've got these supplements that help you do that or I have this, you know, uh nutrition program that I'm, you know, you do a retreat with me three times a year."

26:48>> Seems of course I'm thinking of liver king because the whole premise was his gains came from his diet, not from other things. >> 100%. If >> you've been honest, I think it would have been fine. >> I think Yeah. Um, it would have been interesting for sure. >> Yeah, fine. Maybe not fine. It would have been interesting. >> Oh, yeah. I eat I eat, you know, goat nuts, but I also inject uh Tren. Um, like people were like, "So, is it the goat nuts or is it Tren?" >> Well, it's actually both. It's the interaction between the two. [laughter] >> That's where the magic happens, right? Like,

27:13>> um, yeah. So I that's that's yeah, but he actually I think he's uh it's it's it's a worthwhile example to pull that up because so obviously there was a moment where in time where he went super viral and then it peaked and then Derek as a call back to earlier uh ended up being the one who outed him. >> He exposed him. I remember >> he exposed it. Here's the thing. >> Liver King still makes content >> and I would imagine that he probably still makes good money.

27:38>> Yep. And so I would see what happened to Liver King as close to a quote brand suicide moment as you can get. And yet, >> yeah, >> he keeps going. And so here's the here's the real real I don't think you can get cancelled. And so a lot of people have this fear of making a mistake that's going to end their career. And no mistake ends your career unless you choose to end it. >> And so you can always get back up and keep going. The only way that you can actually get canceled is if you get prevented from distribution, right?

28:09>> So if all platforms deplatform you, if every platform did that, then yeah, you are canceled, right? Like R. Kelly is in jail >> and can't make content. >> He cannot make content. So like he has been he has been effectively canceled. >> On the flip side, how many times has Chappelle been cancelled? I'll put that in quotes here, right? >> He's not canceled. He just keeps going, right? Um, and so in the same light, uh, to to further hopefully put a stake through this thing, your assumption that you have killed your career assumes that everyone in the world knows who you are.

28:37>> And the vast majority of the world doesn't even know you exist, nor do they really care. Um, subtext. And so, like, let's say you have a million person audience. Okay, you mess up. Just go get another million. You're not dead. And if anything, you start having learned a lesson and you just keep going. It's interesting because like I think the poster childs for this in some ways are like Jake and Logan Paul. >> Dude, the Suicide Forest thing.

29:02>> Yeah. >> Like here he is on WWE or whatever whatever they're doing now. I don't follow as as tightly as I probably should to be uh you know in this world. But um >> he's still around and he's quote bigger than Yeah. And so like >> he also Jake Paul also has a VC fund now. >> Yeah. Well, there you go. There are so many examples of quote career-ending moves that didn't actually end the career. What you have to be able to deal with, and this is the real hard part, is that you have to be you have to be able to handle hate for a week

29:30>> because the news cycle is about a week. And so you have to be able to just be hated. And it's very against our human wiring to receive that much hatred and continue onward, >> especially online. It's amplified. >> It's impossible to fathom a million people telling you that you suck. >> Have you gone through that yourself? >> Um, I mean, I've had my moments of people hating on stuff that I that I put out. Um, usually it's just stuff that I put out that just triggers people in general. And I would say that part of it is intended to do that. Like because I have relatively extreme views um on life and death and things like that. And um I make those because those are the views that helped me free myself and made life a lot more palatable for me. I've always been like and if it helps you, use it.

30:09And if it doesn't, don't worry about it. Use whatever you're doing. >> This is not me trying to procelitize. This is me sharing what's worked for me. But of course, people see it and they're triggered because this conflicts with their worldview. >> My content is a documentary, not a sermon. H when you think about the different axes of control, the different models you've said, what's interesting is I've seen a lot of creators stay in the media emperor side. I've seen a good number of creators make money via their own products. >> Like obviously there's festivals. The middle area what you've done is actually very very rare.

30:38>> That's the advantage of if you understand the business game, you can do nasty things cuz I remember so there's I I can't wait for this to get the call back. Um, but one of my very first podcasts I ever did was on Ice Coffee Hour, >> um, with Graham Stefen and on the show, uh, I said if I had your size audience, I would already be a billionaire. I'm excited for when we cross that cuz I think it'll be pretty close. >> You have the audience now, Alex. So, is he say put up or shut up?

31:06>> Yeah. I mean, we've grown a ton. I'll just leave it at that. I'll say this for anybody who's who's listening to this. So, the problem with me claiming something, I would like to have a third party substantiate. Um, and so like I could say, well, if if you know what our revenue is, right? And you put any kind of IBIDA on that, that would be reasonable, especially in a business that has low CAC, >> right? >> Uh, you would probably imagine that it would be decent. And you put any kind of multiple on that, it would be a pretty large number.

31:33>> Yeah. >> And so we have things that are going for us, and we've had uh conversations with companies that said we would value in this in this range. But those are things that I wouldn't if I claim it, I want to be rock solid. >> Absolutely. >> Right. And so that's why I haven't. But that being said, um obviously we've grown a lot um in that period of time and uh I I'm excited for whenever that call back comes because he still has more YouTube people. So I'm using that as mine as my >> You're saying we haven't quite reached your audience yet?

31:59>> Yeah. On YouTube. Yeah. I'm still I'm still I'm still uh behind his audience on YouTube. >> It's actually another good point though. You said multiple, right? The multiple that you would get on what you've built is going to be higher than say a pure YouTuber. >> Yeah. >> Here's your question. when you look at say like what Jimmy Mr. Beast has built. >> Yeah. Oh, perfect. I was going to come back to that. Yes. Okay. >> Is that a business you'd want to invest in yourself? >> So, I think I'd probably take Chamath's angle which is like you just you're basically betting on Jimmy >> and I think um Yeah, I would take that bet, >> right? >> Cuz I think Jimmy will just die or he'll win.

32:26>> Yep. >> And that's kind of you just want to find people like that. When your distribution base is the world, uh it's hard to lose. Yeah. I'll just I'll leave it at that. But what you brought up though, like Prime for example. >> Yeah. So, Prime is actually the identical to a school deal >> because he didn't build the product, >> right? It was Congo Brands is another company that previously had worked with other creators to do other drinks as well. >> Yeah. And so, they promoted it. >> Right. >> Right. But they put I don't know if they put cash in. I don't know if they did, but I'm assuming they put some money in cuz they have the capital. Why not to get more leverage on on the ultimate deal or joint venture? Was Logan going to learn the drink business and get the and get brickandmortar distri? Like maybe. But it's also the question is how much is your time worth? And I don't mean like

33:03>> dollars per hour or anything like that. You absolutely can do it. And when I say time is like how much is the next five years worth to you, right? >> Because if you can pull five years of knowledge forward and then grow for five years rather than learn for 5 years then begin growing because you're if you have an audience of their size, your constraint is going to be delivery. >> It's not distribut like >> Yeah. It's not it's not media distribution. It's going to be product distribution. >> Prime. Yes. >> Yeah. It's going to be product distribution. And so to to build out the kind of infrastructure and knowledge base uh to satisfy the demand internationally, not just nationally, internet because they're in the UK too.

33:39>> Um >> you need you need deep expertise and large existing infrastructure and so Cong. And so I would probably lean more towards that type of model. >> I'm curious like there's me, there's Sir Jimmy I think with Feastables is the only person who is building things truly from scratch. >> Yeah. >> Has hired his own team and everything. >> Yeah. And I don't know if if you were to ask Jimmy again today uh if he could go back in time if he would have >> just if he would have done it the same way.

34:07>> We talked about how stressful it is on your podcast. >> Well and we can and we can already say uh he launched Lunchly, >> right? And well what did he do with Lunchly that he didn't do with Fastables? He didn't build it from scratch, >> right? And so I think part of that is there is a desire that I totally understand as a creator/ entrepreneur to control everything. And if you look at the people who are the wealthiest in the world, almost none of them own 100% of the companies that they have made their wealth on.

34:35>> So you look at Jensen Wang from Nvidia owns 4%. You look at Elon, he owns whatever it is whatever small percentage of Tesla that he owns. Um and with SpaceX, he's not the majority owner. know he might have voting rights, whatever. That's a different different question. Basos owns 9% of of Amazon. Like I could go down the list. Warren Buffett, I think, doesn't own more than 40% of Berkshire Hathway and we could keep going. And so the idea is to build something really really big. In my opinion, need multiple lifetimes

35:03>> and you can either live all of those lifetimes uh in sequence chronologically yourself and then take a lifetime to finally learn how to do everything or you can get three people's lifetimes. You all start together. you divvy up the pie and then you can build something way bigger, way faster. The longer I've been doing business, the more I value time and speed because also we have the assumption that these things will not change in 10 years. So maybe it does take you 10 years to learn everything.

35:30>> Who here uses Instagram as one of their primary ways of getting customers? >> By the way, most of our traffic to about pages comes from Instagram. >> So I would imagine most people >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um same same hands. Who here uses Many Chat? >> Okay. I just want to like right now I think it's the most I think it's the most efficient conversion of eyeball to CTA just like get the thing I'll send you the link and then >> do you guys use that to promote your school mini chat plus Instagram?

35:57>> Yes. >> Yeah. So we've done many chat now on 500 posts of our last posts. Um and what we found is that people just like sending a link is the easiest thing to do. So, what we've done is we've gone a step further and we create a PDF document with actionable resources in it with a hyperlink to whatever it is you're trying to sell. And then that does way better than just a link. So, that's like killing it. >> So, I'll say this back for for everyone at home.

36:24>> So, so you say get my widget and they comment widget and then you send them link to widget which is a PDF that's hosted on drive or whatever and then inside of the widget is want more stuff like this widget go here. >> Yeah. So we run a creative AI education company and we will give people the images and prompts that we use for example in the video so they can access that and then at the bottom it's like check out our school for more education.

36:48>> Great. >> I am getting quite a lot of customers from YouTube. Um and I want to start really pushing that. I'm not posting at all enough. And it really interested me what you said about lives. What's I have a choice to make now where I spend my time making videos. What's the the logic of spending three hours once a week on lives as instead of planning uh a more sort of polished video in that three hours?

37:14>> Well, my actual recording session is the same. So, imagine you're going to do a formalized, you know, polished recording session. I just go live. And so if you want to see me record polished, so like they take that live and then if I do three YouTube videos in that live, those are three other polished posts that are going out. So it's not that those have stopped, it's just that I have I have a fourth asset that gets created where I get deeper involvement, I get Parasocial, I get a free video that gives usually around 100,000 views without me doing anything and then I still get the three videos plus my shorts. So, it's just like it creates another asset number one. And number two, I think there's a different dynamic of live for the people who are live.

37:56Third, I think I show up better when I feel like there's people who are watching rather than just like the three 20-year-olds behind the camera. Uh cuz because in a real way, like probably one of the biggest like um I don't know belief shifts that I had around making content is that the people behind the camera matter a ton. And so some of my earlier content was a little bit more hardcore than I am in reality because I was just yelling at the 20-year-olds behind the camera because I felt like I was talking to them because they were the only people in the room. If I had all women in the room, my content would have been significantly different even though might have had the same packaging or same title or whatever, but like what I was going to say was different. And so the live has kind of like uh rounded off that edge for me because I see girl, guy, person in Algeria, person here, person in Australia, person UK. And so it reminds me kind of like in real time that like there's a lot of different people who are consuming that. And so my examples are different. Uh the energy I bring to is different. And then um the the last piece that um I I like about the lives um no I think that's called I had one more. I can't remember what it was, but those are those.

39:03>> You also find there's something just about being live where it's like, >> oh, I'm live. Whereas a camera, if it's just rolling, you're like, >> yeah, >> cuz you're actually live. You [clears throat] can't just be like, screw this. Yeah. Like, I'm done. There's some It gives me energy. At least if unless I'm doing it live, I don't want to do it basically. >> Yeah. >> I haven't seen your lives. You have questions on. Are people asking you questions while you So, you have to you get interrupted quite a lot.

39:27>> No. So, yes and no. So, I have my So, I don't think about as interruptions. I think about is them asking questions while I make a point that if I don't answer it, they would I'd lose that in the video. >> So, it adds more value. >> Exactly. So, I don't answer every question, but I'll I'll like I'll keep an eye on it and the guys can cut out like a gap of me reading the comments in between and then I'll address it. So before we had this, the way I did the videos is I would go record the video, the guys would write down questions they had and then they would ask the questions after and then they would slice those in. Uh so I'd be like, so I make my point like so for example, if you're one of these people, which I didn't say at the moment because they're like, well, what if this? I' like, it's a good point. Didn't think about that.

40:10And so then I'll I'll interject it, which then makes it a more complete video. >> Do you go live on several platforms at the same time? Like >> I just do YouTube, but I'm sure I could. I just >> haven't. Cool. >> I also just wanted to thank uh Andrew Kirby over there because I heard about school from videos he made on YouTube. And >> you [applause] know what you do is very similar to the Twitch some of the Twitch streamers. Have you heard them talk about it?

40:35>> Yeah. The the best ones are very good at making one live and then repurposing it for everything. Yeah. >> The key was like I still make my three YouTube videos a week or whatever from like that's happens in the live. So, but the thing that you'll find is that the live is totally okay with one, they want to see what how you actually make these videos. They're just curious. And then number two, if you say, "Hey guys, I'm going to do this intro real quick and then I just do the intro." No one's like, "Oh, [ __ ] this guy." I mean, because fundamentally, if if the hook is interesting, it will make them want to watch more.

41:11>> But it feels so raw and live that it's that's what happens on a Twitch stream, right? That's why Yeah. Sorry, I don't have the mic. You actually say, "Hang on, guys. I'm doing an intro now." >> Yeah. >> I was like, "All right, so I'm going to three videos today. First video is going to be on this. Second video is on this. Third video is on this." So, I'll do a little Q&A 5 minutes and I'll be like, "All right, I'm going to rip." So, uh, you're poor and that sucks. And so, we need to fix that. And here's, you know, seven ways that I don't kill myself from saying this, right? And the big thing that everyone misses is people try and dissect my content. The message is 10% of how people consume it. 90% is the context around the message. So Elon Musk can tweet on the toilet and be like, "I'm on the throne taking a shit." And it'll get a million likes. Why? Because it's Elon Musk, he's the richest man in the world and owns three of the biggest companies that are most innovative of all time. I don't kid myself and think that like my content is so much better than other people. There's plenty of people with better content than me that don't get the same views. And the [music] reason is because they don't have the context. They don't have the proof. and solve for the proof and then the content will take care of itself because one, you will know what you're talking about because you have proof that you know what you're talking about and people will believe you. Which is why you should solve for evidence above everything else. Like evidence gives you the confidence. If someone says, "Alex, I don't think you know [ __ ] about business." I'd be like, "Okay, it doesn't really affect me." I do know we crossed $100 million in net worth at age [music] 32. I know that. But if someone said that to you and you haven't accomplished anything, you don't have anything to stand back on and it hurts you more. But I have proof. So, it's like you can just deflect it towards the proof and keep living your life. The secret to longevity is, especially in the content game, but really in any game that you're trying to at least help other people with, is that if you've done the thing, you can be certain rather than confident. Be certain based on what you've done, not based on

42:54>> There's a big difference between becoming known and becoming respected. Don't let an algorithm convince you otherwise. I mean, I think this is probably super pertinent for for people in our position. Um, but I'll go from the internet perspective and we can circle back to IRL. Um, but I mean a lot of people will make content. Obviously, I make stuff for me too. Like talk about artists making things for themselves. Like I make most of my tweets are just like notes to self. Um, but like if I ever feel like I have to sacrifice who I am or the values that I believe in in order to like get more views or something like that, I see it happen more times than not because the algorithm and the views and the likes become kind of a proxy for conforming in in their own way. Like everyone likes this type of thing.

43:42>> Do more of that. And that makes me feel very like dance monkey dance. >> And um I think there's there's few things that kill my soul more than that. And so I would rather, you know, I would rather the algorithm shut me off tomorrow and I continue to make stuff that I find interesting that 10 people find interesting that is actually the same stuff as me than just have these viral hits that I feel like I'm Ronald McDonald in. Um, and just feel like I've completely lost my soul. And I I do think as a side note that if you do the first one where your intention is to maybe help find the 10 people who are really interested in your thing, you probably will create more of the viral hits. But when you solve for the other way, I think you accomplish neither.

44:22>> I have this theory that more creators fall out of favor because they become cringe than because they become irrelevant. >> I love that you Yeah, I love that. >> I think it's I think it's true. I think if you think about the thing that you do, almost anything that anybody is creating is public facing because if it wasn't public facing, it would just be a hobby. Doing your painting because you love painting is a hobby. doing your painting to try and sell it is something that you do as a business or as a a public project.

44:55The flywheel is so vicious in the positive direction and even more vicious in the negative direction. If it becomes cancerous or uncool or untrendy or catastrophic or cringe to be seen to be watching or listening to or consuming the thing that you make, it is you are permanently going to be swimming upstream and it is only going to get worse. Which is why you look at Shane Gillis is a really great example of this at the moment. He's someone who is great at his craft, big platform, moved to Austin, got all of the multipliers in place,

45:31>> but he isn't cringe. >> And because he's not cringe, if you've watched Beautiful Dogs, his Netflix special, >> it's not uncool. It's like there's this idea in publishing, so I've been doing my research ahead of the book. There's this idea in publishing called the subway test, >> right? Would someone be prepared to have the full dust jacket version of your book out on the subway? >> Okay.

45:54>> And if your book is like stop erectile dysfunction the erection problem, right? >> Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like like no more flatulence today or something like if that's if that's your book, it's going to be very difficult. Or if it's written by somebody where it's like, oh, really don't want to do that. So, and and this is the point where there are tons and tons and tons of people on the planet who have huge platforms that nobody respects.

46:21>> Mhm. >> And I've seen even within my 7-year career of doing this, the arc of people trade integrity for exposure and not be able to buy it back. >> Yeah. because there is no return policy on your integrity, >> on your reputation, >> and those people would give anything to be back in the cool kids club.

46:48>> I I mean, this is a like I love this entire train. Um, I was thinking like what what creates like what's what's timelessly not cringe, right? Like so like if cringe is the ultimate like what we don't want then like what would what is forever not cringe? And the only thing that I can like really think of is is just true authenticity, which is an overused word, but again, easy to say, hard to do. I think what is what is forever cringe on the equal opposite side is is pandering.

47:21Like whenever you're seen as someone who's only doing stuff for other people's opinion, approval, likes, whatever, especially double cringe when it's for your own personal gain. And so if the equal opposite of that is uh something that is to my personal detriment um that is truly something that I believe in, it honestly doesn't matter what it is because there are some people that probably believe things that I don't believe. But I genuinely think based on what I see that they genuinely believe it and it's and they don't really stand to gain much for believing it.

47:53>> Yeah. >> There's no cringe there. It's just like that fan that man [ __ ] believes that. And I think that um some of the you know some of the characters in our current you know politere and things like that like many people you know you say the word Trump and you have half the pe you know people who hate you and the other half that love you it's like I think most people agree that he believes what he says now whether you believe the content of what he's saying is a different story but mo like I don't think many people have called him as somebody who's like I think he's he doesn't really think that about himself like no I think he I think he really does and even I'm just going to push the edges because that's where you have to like explore the fringe. Look at someone like Kanye who's been borderline canceled for I mean multiple times, right? But like why is Kanye quote uncancellable? Cuz he hasn't been, right? Not really. Like if he came out tomorrow with a hits a hit album, I'll bet you it would [ __ ] sell because I think that at least for me, from what I see, I think he does what he believes.

48:52And people might be like he's mentally unstable. there's all these other but like no one thinks he's being fake and I think that like if that becomes the northstar of like I just never want to become cringe then it's just never be fake. >> What's next? What can people expect from you next few months? >> Um well all my effort is in the the school games. So we're uh I mean I can talk about them. I cannot talk about them. Yeah. Um so yeah. So I I just made the biggest investment of my life. I'm now co-owner of school.com. Um, it's a platform where you can build what you want to build, learn what you want to learn, and uh, schools will give you the tools, the community, and the education to help you. And so, we've actually created a whole thing where people can start all this stuff for free. Um, because I just I believe my whole platform has been education. That's what I believe in. Um, I think the education system is broken and um, teachers don't get paid or given the resources to actually teach students and, you know, they're supposed to teach tests that they know don't help students. Students get educated on stuff that doesn't matter in the real world and they go into amounts of debt for a piece of paper that doesn't make them anything to pay off the debt that they're in for the rest of their lives. And I just I hate all of it, which is why we started making the content that we do. And so, um, this is one big investment that I'm doing to try and make my small dent towards helping fix that. And I don't like I obviously talk about business.

50:12That's what I know. Okay. Um, but one person can't can't do that. Like I can't change I mean I can try, you know, but like I I don't I don't think one one person is going to change the world. And so um I wanted to invest in a platform that would help other people do that for one another. And so whether it's like you know how to paint and you want to teach people to paint, you know how to fix Hondas and you want to teach people to do that, like there are so many more useful skills that we can trade with one another. And I think Ben Franklin said there's no more high there's no more noble a deed than to help another know more to educate and I I wholeheartedly believe that. And so um I mean that's what I'm investing my my dollars and my time into. And so, um, yeah, that's that's the that's like my whole next year.

50:58>> Let's talk about experiential marketing. You're doing 13 million topline, 15 million, uh, 50 million is the goal, and the thing that is holding you back is marketing, ironically. Uh, so, um, >> yeah, this is good. >> Yeah. >> Got [laughter] it. >> Helpful. >> Very helpful. >> Okay, cool. So, um, what do you do to get customers?

51:22Uh right now we're waiting for the phone to ring. Uh and we're doing paid search. >> Okay. >> Spending about $13,000 uh a month, I believe. >> Okay. Just on keyword. >> I to be honest, I don't know because I don't have any metrics. >> Okay. >> So, we're posting and praying >> and and we are we're doing a ton of posting on social. >> Okay. >> We finally got to a point where we know how to create social. >> Okay.

51:46>> But nobody's looking at the result. >> Okay. And so I mean through the past day and two or two I've kind of figured out what we need to do. >> Okay. >> And we need to I think we have to go back and put some metrics together and uh really measure what it is that we're doing and and figure out >> how to do better. >> How many customers do you have right now? >> Uh we do about 20 to 25 a year.

52:10>> New? >> Uh I would say probably about 80% are new. 85% are new. >> Okay. So is it 80% churn? Is it a onetime thing? >> A lot of our stuff is one time. >> When you say experiential, is this like booth set events and things like that? >> Yeah, we do big mobile tours for like eBay. We're doing eBay live right now for them. >> Um, okay. So, yeah. I mean, for sure we need we need them just like because the first question be like, why can't we do more we're currently doing? You're like, I don't know what we're currently doing.

52:38So, it's like all right. >> We also have a bunch of mobile podcast studios. If you ever need them, >> you can use them. I let you let you use them for free. I wouldn't charge it. [laughter] Free of charge. >> Thank you. Yeah. Um, okay. So, uh, 13 million a year, you got 20 to 25 customers. 80% of the renew, so call it 20 or new. >> Um, so you're selling like two customers a month, call it roughly. That's a little bit over, but something in there. So, every every two weeks you have a sale. How many conversations does it take you to get a sale?

53:06>> Again, I I don't have the metrics. >> Word. >> Okay. >> And another [laughter] thing another thing that's a little difficult for us is a lot of our customers are agencies, marketing agencies. They come up with the idea. Some of them don't even have the job yet. >> So, we're waiting on them to close the deal. And once they close the deal, they come to us and we produce it for them. >> So, they include you as a part of their package. >> Yes. Sometimes white labelled and sometimes they bring us to the table.

53:29>> Got it. Got it. >> So, I'll give you a frame of a different way to think about the business that might be higher leverage. >> Okay. So I would instead of thinking about acquiring the customers because you do have somewhat I would call it episodic work I would chunk up a level to thinking about the number of agencies that you onboard and then thinking of them as a distribution layer. And so the idea would be okay I know that this particular type of agency or style of agency should be able to net me five 10 customers a year whatever the number is right. Um, and so then what we have is the cost of acquiring a node of distribution. And so if that agency, so it might be that your strategy should be outreach to agency owners and then showing them how much more money they make when they bundle your thing into their services. Um, and then as a result, they're going to b, you know, they'll sell they'll be your distribution layer for you. But where the issue that the business at least in my opinion one of the things that frightens me about the business and maybe keeps you up at night is that 80 you have to sell 80% of the customers every single year just to you know just to get to where you were last year right and then you have 20% that renew and you have you have to grow from there. I I hate that right. Um and so I'd rather think like can I get every month one new agency that's going to send me one new customer a month. And so even though the logos are different at the at the customer level, at the distributor level it stays the same. And so they become my true real new customer. And so I create my customer journey around them making their lives easier. And then I just let them go bring the customers to me. And then that gives you another level of leverage, too. Because if I acquire, you know, let's simple math. Let's say each one of these agencies bring me one customer a month. If I can get one agency a month, by the end of the year, I have 12 new customers per month that I'm just doing some sort of re some sort of deal with them on. And then next month I'm at 13 and then 14. And so that stacks. Now obviously part of that's going to be how do we activate them?

55:26What is the affiliate journey or the distributor journey? Do we have a distributor churn? Um but just like a customer if we can get 80% of them activated and still referring us business next year that creates a stackable compounding business that makes the business valuable even though the nature of the work itself is one time. >> There's only one issue with that. >> Sure. is that um >> you let me go through the whole thing just for [laughter]

55:49>> is is no no you said some uh interesting things that I'm gonna think about um >> the agency since co now um are distributed all over the country >> and really our true customer is the producer for the agency >> right so the producer just got a job for Coca-Cola and need somebody to produce it for them that's when they call us >> so a lot of those people aren't full-time and a lot of a lot of my relationship ships really aren't with the agency, it's with that producer or the account team.

56:20>> I think it works the exact same way. Just swap agency for producer, but okay. Same same. >> Yeah. Cool. Thanks. Yeah. >> What's working right now? [sighs and gasps] >> Is that that depressing? >> Yeah. Right. [laughter] Um, I'll say on the content side, I'll go I'll go longs and shorts. I'll just kind of go by category. So from the long perspective, I still think idea is the the biggest arbitrage in terms of like what is the actual thing about um is still the number one thing like what's the what's the unique insight that you have is it'll it trumps the packaging it trumps the headline like if the thing like I I love this saying like you ever heard um too big to fail some like talk about the banking system I believe there's like a parallel one within content which is too good to fail like if the content is just except exceptional. Like if you look at the original Peterson clip that went like super viral, it's not like what's the hook and like what's the finish of the production on this thing. It's like a shitty iPhone angled while he's like having a debate with some students and it's got a gazillion views, right? And so I think the the elements that we're talking about earlier in terms of exceptionalism and to Sam's point about that engineer, I'm like, man, I could just listen to this guy talk about engines all day. There's it's like peeling back the layers. And so I I think about this a lot actually because it's like what's the real truth. So I I recently did the podcast with Tony Robbins, right? And I think that there's there's layers, right? And if you peel two or three layers back, then you get to like the real the real truth. Um which is like yes, as a force I want to make an impact and I want to help all these people and all stuff. It's like I also feel somewhat disconnected from it because it happens a lot. I get a lot of people come up and say like, "I made my first million dollars because of you or I changed my business, changed my life, I moved." And um and you do get hydonic adaptation. Like you just it just eventually is like, "Yeah, I mean, you followed the steps, man." Like, great. I mean, sell [ __ ] for more money, tell people about it, do a good job. Like, it works. Um but but just talking about that, I think people have some fear around like what's the truth below the truth. It's not like the thing above wasn't true. of course I want to make an impact but like what's the next level truth and maybe even the truth below that and I think that's where and that can be the truth I visit like from a philosophical personal level but there's also that that that depth of truth within making content or that depth of truth in terms of engineering like well let me tell you what I really had to think about I really had to think about the airflow versus the like and you just get layers and layers deeper and you're like man I never thought about that and you can only get that level of thinking with kind surface area of time on problem. And so in some ways you can demonstrate your expertise in a given domain based on the level of questions and the depth of the questions you have around it. Like if you just get into the pickup space or I don't want to say that the relationship space, excuse me. Um into the relationship, [laughter] they're like we're artists. Um, so [laughter] if you get in there like and you read a cursory like your your your your insights are going to be service level, but it's the two or three levels underneath of that where you get the kind of the unique insights where it's like I've really had some time to think about this when I traveled and I thought about it in different countries and I thought about it in different time periods of my life and you only get that surface area by sitting with some stuff.

59:48And I'll say that for me like the like do some of you guys have those moment like I'll call them inspired moments because who here makes content as your prime okay most of you guys. So, I'm sure there's there's kind of like 80% of the content you make, you're like, I have to feed the machine, right? Like, what's an interesting thing? I'll feed the machine. But then there's like 20% of the content you're like, I really I'm going to curse, but like I really [ __ ] with this right now. Like, this is very like I am actually very like not I think this would be interesting to other people, but like I am interested in this. And I think that that flip and it doesn't happen all the time, right? Cuz that one like you can't always pick when you're going to be like really into something. and it doesn't it doesn't uh coordinate with your Monday, Wednesday, Friday posting cadence at 10 a.m., right? And so it's like you'll have these moments and I would just like encourage you that when those when those happen to try and recreate the conditions for it to occur. Not to say like oh I must become interested in something at 9:00 a.m. but just like what were the things that were common there like did I sleep well? Like these sounds like really basic stuff but I find them to be really important at the kind of high higher and higher levels of like creativity. It's like you got to sleep well, eat, you know, not worry about these other things. And I think Sam said earlier like I'm trying to eliminate things from my life. And it's like so you have space to think like you have to have capacity. You have to have excess capacity in order to create insights. Like you cannot create insights and be busy all the time. It just doesn't work.

1:01:12>> Yeah. Stephen King said he could never write a book unless all the drawers in his desk were clean. So it's he couldn't even see them. But it's like a unless all the little things that will nag you when you're in focus are like kind of taken care of, it's hard to get deep into that space. I'm kind of the same. I got to I got to do a lot of things before I can do something good basically. Um and that's the creative thing, right?

1:01:40Yeah. >> Has any have you guys uh watched the video I made of maker versus manager? Okay. I would like I live by that. So that has not changed. Like right now still four or five days a week of mine have no meetings whatsoever on them. So I can have time to like think of [ __ ] Um and sometimes that comes from like phone calls, conversations, just like just something that and that's where like all the big gains that I've had even in business have come from like insights during those moments. But like you have to create space

1:02:10>> exploring. >> Yeah. Just wandering like >> Yeah, exploring is key. Like sometimes when I get those things done, I'll just just browse around all kinds of random stuff. >> Yeah. >> And then some little spark happens and then you follow it a bit and Yeah. >> And you have to have time to follow it because if you like find it and then you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I'm I'm I'm now booked again." It's like it it vanishes. It like it goes away and it finds another person who can go pursue it. But that was the Sorry, that was real. But that's the that's the long stuff because I think that's the idea is the thing that matters the most and like you being interested in it. So I would just if you ever have to pick so like I think the Tony interview is just it's just an easy simple example because it just happened but like I did have that option in the beginning. I was like do I want to make this an algorithm headline driven like what are the 10 things that people find most interesting about Tony and then I'll just ask those in that order and whatever and it'll perform. And what was interesting is that he he's doing like five he does like five podcasts a year, I think, and he does them around his next event. That's that's his promotional schedule. And and this is no zero. Well, I won't even say it. I just think if you watch the other podcast, they look different. I'll just say that.

1:03:18Um >> was this intentional? Did you think about how this thing should go or did that was that an accident? >> No, I thought about it. >> Okay. I thought so. Yeah. So, right before I went up, Ila was like, and so this is my my wife inspired and she was like, I think you should just ask Tony whatever you want to talk ask him about. And so, I was I thought about it. I was like, "Fuck it." Yeah, let's do that. And so, it ended and then obviously the podcast is I've had more texts about that podcast than besides my launches.

1:03:47I've had more messages about that of than anything else, any other piece of content that I've made. Um, but I think it was just because like I was interested and I think just just that. So that's my that's my absolute essence of >> So we sell magic mushroom products online uh e-commerce. >> Okay. >> Um we do >> like drug mushrooms. >> Yeah, the psychedelic kind. Yeah. >> Cool. >> Uh we did about 650,000 in revenue last year.

1:04:13>> That was kind of our first big >> Is that legal? >> Uh it's it's a kind of a gray area. It depends where you're selling it. [laughter] Yeah. So [laughter] >> um >> it's [laughter] Yeah, >> you're good, dude. Don't worry about it. I'll help you out. That's fine. >> So we'd like to Yeah. grow the business to 3 million, 5 million. >> Have more people get high. I love the impact.

1:04:41>> Yeah, >> I'm I'm just kidding. >> I know it is. Yeah. >> Um so what what's stopping us? Uh it's basically um marketing. We have um [clears throat] >> social media. We got most of our >> um from Instagram most of our clients. Um >> do you make content or someone else make content? >> We make content. >> Okay. Is it you or is it just >> It's me and my business partner. >> Okay. Got it. >> Yeah. We make part >> medicine. >> Yes. Yeah. >> That's right.

1:05:06>> Yeah. So that was you know we were trying different things. Um last December we kind of had a few pieces of content that went viral. Um started getting a lot of uh a lot more customers from that. Okay. Um it's been a bit of a struggle just because of the the nature of the products, you know, getting strikes and flagged and account shut down >> even on the organic side. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, you can't run ads, I'm guessing.

1:05:31>> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. I don't Yeah, we might be able to run ads. We just have to be careful language. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. >> Um so, we kind of Yeah, it's it's kind of like skating on thin ice. We want to diversify >> our marketing. Um, you know, we have a lot of good months and then dips down and depends on the content. >> So, yeah, [clears throat] we're trying to >> sell more [ __ ] >> Yeah. Sell more [ __ ] Exactly. >> Got it. >> So, uh, I mean, fundamentally, the thing that you're fighting against is irrelevance, right? So, just just to name the enemy is that no one knows you exist.

1:06:03>> And so, we just need to advertise more. That's literally it. Like, this is the lead's book, A Toz. And so, uh, of the core four, um, I'm assuming that the delivery of this is probably not that complex. >> No. >> Right. And so, what are you guys spending your time doing all day? >> We do make content. Uh, we also do all the day-to-day stuff. Uh, recently, we got a partner that's taking care of a lot of a lot of that now, so we have more time freed up.

1:06:28>> Um, >> but yeah, we >> make content. >> How much content do you make on what platforms? Uh just basically Instagram right now is is mostly um we don't we don't do a ton about content. We we post one reel a day, a couple stories. >> Um >> Uhhuh. >> So our plan is to make more content and go. Yeah. Yeah. >> I like that. It's a good plan. >> Yeah.

1:06:53>> Um how many hours per day are you spending on advertising? And I say that in the formal sense. >> Zero. We don't do any >> Well, yeah. Content being advertising. >> So um hours a day. Mhm. >> Probably three to four hours a day >> and you're making one real >> Well, okay. Maybe. Yeah, maybe it's not that much. [laughter] >> I'm just think we're we're figuring out like >> I'm only smoking one cigarette a day, doc. [laughter] Like I don't know where this black lung came from.

1:07:20>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um yeah, we're just in the middle of like reorganizing how we do content, figuring out systems to do more, generating more ideas. Um, so, so yeah, >> if we were actually just making content 3, four hours a day, yeah, we'd have a lot more >> content. >> What are you doing >> that is more important than that now? >> Cuz that's obviously we should do. So like I'm trying like why is he not doing this?

1:07:48>> Yeah. Nothing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Great. Told you one out of like three or four. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's [laughter] what I figured. Yeah. >> So, let's just do quick levels for you cuz I want you to have like some some easy takeaways. All right. So, number one is like you should be crossplatform on everything. All right. So, all the real should be Tik Tok, YouTube shorts, uh Instagram. Um, so that's like when you Facebook, uh, Facebook's huge by the way. Um, Facebook, LinkedIn video is blowing up right now. So, there's there's five that you should be X actually video is big there too. So, there's six.

1:08:24>> Mhm. >> Seven, whatever that this many, right? Uh so that's number one. Number two, um take the transcriptions of those, those become posts in of themselves. >> Take those transcriptions, make them into infographics, those become posts. >> All right, so we just went 7* 3 with 21x output. That's that's first lever, >> right? >> Second lever is on the production side. You guys are doing, you know, however much per day, one reel per day. I'm guessing you're like making it and posting it and making it and posting it.

1:08:54Does that sound about right? Okay. So here's this idea. We're gonna plan uh and so we're gonna plan the week and we're gonna think we're going to spend like two days just planning what we're going to make and then we're going to spend one day recording all of it >> and then you can just edit and then you can just get into a cadence that now you can post way more because I promise if you plan it out and you chunk the work because you're just going like going end to end is the most inefficient way to produce anything. Mhm. And so it's like it's much easier to say, "I'm in idea mode. Let me research hooks. Let me research trending topics. Let me uh memes and formats. Great. I've got all these ideas in. Here's all the the shorts that I want to make."

1:09:35>> Now, okay, now that I have those ideas, I'm going to go film them. Now, we're going to go edit them right >> and so that's like I mean, honestly, if you just do that, you'll probably triple. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And your conversion is what? They hit your link and then go buy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, add a CTA at the end of your organics, go to Many Chat. >> Yeah. The thing about CTAs is that we don't really do CTAs just because we don't want to get flagged and things like that. So, a lot of our content is, you know, it's we grow our own mushrooms, so we post mushroom content that way. We do fun

1:10:07>> fun videos, you know, recipes. >> The CTA is going to change whether or not you >> I mean, you're talking about mushrooms, man. >> I think if you're like, "Hey, here's a free mushroom guide to figure out how, you know, which one's the best for your high or whatever." Yeah. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> You know, I think like I like diagnostics as a as a lead magnet because >> it helps people figure out where they're at, but it it it gives you like endless hooks on the front end because I don't want to have I don't have to create a new lead mag for every piece of content, right? I want to make one hero piece, scaling road map, etc. that all you do is you chunk in, chunk out. So, what I mean is like this applies for everybody.

1:10:42Uh it's like this is what you This is like just go really deep on like the flower. I don't know [ __ ] about mushrooms, but like the flower head or whatever is inside mushrooms, [laughter] right? >> Fruing body. >> Yeah. The fruit of the butt. Is that what you just said? >> The fruing body. >> The fruing body. >> It's called That's what it's called. >> So, if it's got if this thing's got a good-look body, right? And it's fruity, right? And [laughter] it's like I just talked about this one element, but there's 16 other things that you have to think about when you're looking for your first high, right? And so, and so download the thing and then we'll send it to you. And then obviously inside of there, all of that's going to be hyperl to your store,

1:11:18>> right? >> Or you can have the the link just go straight to your store to an article that then links to the shop. Either way works, >> uh, what do you think about doing more long form content like podcast? >> But right now, you're not making short form. So, let's do that. >> Okay. Just do that. Yeah. Okay. >> Do the first thing. >> Do the first thing >> and then do the second. >> Okay. >> Because the thing is is it's harder to make longs than it's just make short. And so once you learn how to make shorts, longs is just many of those together on a theme.

1:11:42>> Mhm. It's all >> What about uh live and interactive? I I know you mentioned that recently. Doing more of that. >> You're doing one short a day. Yeah. >> I say we go way more than that. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> I I mean just do that. Just do that. >> Okay. >> If once you do that consistently for like 3 to 6 months, then like that's systematized. We'll do something else on top. It's just layers. >> Layers. Yeah. >> Because one of the big things, this happens for everybody is like once you get good at some advertising channel, if you're the one who's leading it and you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna try this live stream thing." All of a sudden, these ones like bomb. So, in order to truly scale advertising over a long period of time,

1:12:17>> you have to literally lay this brick foundation and then it's working. >> Then you lay the next one. And most people just they jump from brick to brick and they never actually get any foundation. So, it never stacks. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> Cool. >> Okay. >> Appreciate you. >> Thank you. If you like this video and you're a business owner who wants to break through your current revenue ceiling, I distilled every lesson from scaling 10 businesses past 10 million and three businesses past 100 million into a completely free scaling road map that I've used to go from 0 to 1, 0 to 10, and 0 to 100 plus. And so you can click here and you can check it out.

1:12:46Again, absolutely free. And since you're a business owner, appreciate you and uh enjoy.